IB or A Levels

[Veronica25]

What are people experience of IB or A levels and their opinion? how do they impact work and university choices?

DD is looking at Sixth Forms and doesn't know yet what she would like to do as a career. She enjoys various subjects including DT, Geography, Maths, Chemistry, Spanish, have thought of economics and business but researched them yet.

I would be grateful for opinion on both.

A levels allow greater specialisation if you are not great at a wider range of subjects. Lots of maths students don’t need IB for example. If she’s very good at everything it keeps lots of options open snd universities are happy with it. I think MFL students are better off doing 2 x MFL A levels so it’s really looking at whether the IB is best prep or not. Also would she get the highest grades at IB? Suits some DC but not others. All u is consider both but sometimes A levels are better prep.

All of DS's friends doing the IB are having nervous breakdowns. It 's a huge amount of work. Do look into CAS, for instance. Also the extra writing.

I suppose it does cover all bases for a DC unsure of career, but A levels can do that too. For instance, your DD could take Maths ( a good subject for any career and one that works for economics later on), Geography or History ( Humanities subject) and Chemistry. This combination would allow her to take up a business, science or humanities career.

I did the IB, most friends did a levels albeit a while ago. The thing with IB is if you fail one subject you fail the whole thing, that’s the big stressor. I loved the range of subjects but some kids were pressured into it by parents and didn’t really like some of the subjects, and as I said above if you have a weak spot anywhere it’s really hard.

Personally I thought the CAS stuff was challenging but ok, extended essay was best practice ever for uni.

In short, if your daughter a) is a true all rounder with no difficult/hated subjects b) balances her workload ok c) really wants to do it, I’d say go for it. If not, A levels are a safer choice.

I did the IB and I think it’s phenomenal but it does suit a more academically able child. I don’t know anyone who failed it so I wouldn’t let that bother you but it is rigorous and broad.

Thank you very much. I think IB will be good for her as she is an all rounder and academic. Also, It would be great to be able to continue with maths, a language and English plus the other subjects she likes like DT, Geography and Chemistry; instead of having to choose only 3 subjects; however we don't want her having a nervous breakdown so I will get her to research more into it so she makes the right decision. There will be plenty of work when she goes to university and we want her to keep enjoying learning.

Really interesting to read these. My kids school really pushed the IB, and it was considered a good choice as broader maybe not quite so rigorous!

My DD1 was an all rounder but still did A levels because the IB didn’t confer any advantage. She decided she did want to pursue MFL so being good at English, Maths, History etc meant she did make choices. There are few degrees where the breadth of IB is worth it. It certainly allows breadth but a maths degree won’t care what your Geography or MFL is like. So doing more subjects at IB can be great but it’s not necessary even for highly academic DC. My DD preferred to spend time singing, doing drama and other things at school that she enjoyed and were not leading to university.

Yeah and that’s fair enough. The upsides for me were a broader range of interesting subjects to keep me engaged with school, the world literature which was very cool, and a tight social group with the other students. It doesn’t confer advantages in terms of uni, that wouldn’t be a good reason. In fact when I did it you got exactly zero points from UCAS!

Husband (Deputy Head) just said "Very prentious to to the IB in Britain".

Not pretentious at all! Lots of DC can stay interested at school by doing clubs, sport, music, mentoring, leadership, etc. EPQ even!

Lots of universities do not ask for ucas points. Most top courses where academic DC end up ask for A level grades or X points IB score.

Lol at a course being pretentious. I did it at a comprehensive with students from all backgrounds. Your husband sounds like he needs to open his mind.

Shame a deluge head thinks that too! So much for welcoming a great education!

It’s also true to say that the IB is expensive to teach and I’m not aware of any grammar school where I live offering it. It’s mostly offered at independent schools but it’s worrying a deputy head thinks it’s pretentious.

Deluge!!! Deputy. My proof reading skills need to improve.

What a depressing attitude from a deputy head. So he's dismissing a fantastic qualification presumably on the basis that it's mainly offered in the UK by independent and some grammar schools (though there are actually a number of all ability state schools that offer it too)? Sorry, but that sounds like pure knee-jerk inverse snobbery. OP, it's not for everyone, but if you've got a kid who's a relative all-rounder, who's self-motivated to work hard and who you feel has the resilience to handle the workload, then it's a great qualification.

My ds did the IB diploma: HL maths, chemistry, biology and SL English, German and Geography and achieved 43 points.
It is a great choice if you are a good all rounder and due to the CAS requirement you always have a lot of interesting activities/experiences for the personal statement on UCAS form. The workload is heavy and the course requires steady commitment and focus throughout the two years. It’s not a course for those who like to cruise and then cram.
The IB emphasises reflecting on your learning, experiences and how you learn and this approach seems to be increasingly popular both at uni and in the workplace. Ds had several pieces of work at university that required a reflection and he found this much easier to approach than students who had studied a levels.

Re university choice
Ds had an offer from all five of his choices and he chose Warwick. There were quite a few IB students on his course, especially those who had come from overseas. He graduated this year and is now a trainee chartered accountant.

I did the IB as I had no idea what I wanted to do in the future at that stage. Literally no clue, so it let me continue with the sciences (I chose another science in the flexible group option), maths, English and humanities until I had made up my mind.

The admissions lecturer at the uni I eventually went to favoured the IB students with high scores - he was under the impression a levels could be passed easily just by memorising the book, whereas IB you had to do some if your own research eg. The extended essay and Theory of Knowledge essay. Whether that is true I have no idea, didn't do a levels to compare.

I wish it was an option for my DD. She is a strong all-rounder, organised and self motivated. She doesn't know what she wants to do at Uni and so being forced to choose 3 A levels feels limiting. Unfortunately the closest state school offering the IB to us is 2 hours on public transport away. I can't afford the £15,000 a year for the closest private school. As someone who has taught at RG uni I can say being able to manage your workload, manage continual assessment (as opposed to end of course cramming) and reflect on your learning are really significant advantages.

Some of the humanities A level subjects include a non examined assessment (NEA) which involves research, data collection and a short dissertation. DD's school didn't offer the EPQ, and her 6,000 word NEA has certainly helped her with how to tackle some of her university assignments.

From memory the A level subjects that include an NEA are: geography, history, English literature and Art & design.

I think it is a shame it is not offered more widely. I think it can benefit girls especially, who are all rounders, who are torn on what they want to study later on at uni, who might otherwise limit their choices too early.

Someone my DD was at school with years 7-11, moved fire 6th form and did the IB and went on to study civil engineering. She wasn't headed in that direction at the end of year 11 and had she taken A levels was unlikely to have narrowed herself to the correct ones for engineering.

The reason it is not offered more widely is the cost. It’s very expensive re staffing and most schools have to run if with A levels and some would have to run it with BTecs. It’s just one option too many when A levels are just fine for the vast majority.

43 points is a massive score. Few get this. The big problem has been that DC are coerced into IB because schools have invested in it but then DC find, at advanced level, they are not all rounders at all. So getting 30 points doesn’t feel great when you could have done better with 3 A levels. We toured a few schools offering IB and found students who admitted they had made a mistake and it wasn’t working for them and their likely score would be disappointing. Often they cited the maths/science element caused issues.

I do think many A level students are perfectly fine at university and engage with their study in a mature way. As the vast majority of students have A levels it’s a sweeping statement to say they cannot access degree level study in the same way. Of course they can! A levels in many subjects are decent prep and the personality of the DC and attitudes to study are also key factors.

I don’t think it’s worth seeking out IB these days. I also don’t believe admissions prefer it. Otherwise many top universities like Oxbridge and imperial would have lots of second class students who cannot do as well in their degrees. As Oxbridge is now accepting DC from state schools in very great numbers who won’t have got near the IB, I would say the IB doesn’t confer advantage. It’s merely stated by those justifying their decision to do it.

Even DC with mostly 9s at Gcse have favourite subjects. Ones they enjoy slightly more. My DD1 had stellar gcse results but could rationalise what she felt more comfortable with at A level. Most dc can project beyond gcse and look at where their overall strengths and interests lie. That is also a sign of maturity!

My DDs did it. It offers them a lot of flexibility when choosing uni courses. Mine scored 34 & 35. One went to Glasgow and one went to Bristol. Both graduated with firsts. Mine said the IB stood them good stead in the first years of uni as they were used to producing essays to a high academic standard.

I would choose IB, but in Spain we had to do 10 subjects at that level, including three languages (PE and RE non-graded), and took exams in all of them. If my kids ever wanted to go to Spain for university it would be much easier to convert an IB qualification, same for many other countries which don’t specialise in only 3/4 subjects so early. It’d be harder to fulfill uni admission requirements with A levels only.

My DD is doing the IB. It is a lot of work but you are taught how to pace yourself, plus as already mentioned it is great for an all rounder. Also I thought it important to continue with maths and Language and literature (either English or native language) as many non U.K. universities would expect it (we live in a country with a baccalaureate type of qualification, all core subjects right through to end of lycée).

Friends’ DC who have already done IB and gone to university have mentioned that the transition to uni was a doddle compared to their A level counterparts as they already had experience of structure and workload so found their first year really easy.

@TizerorFizz

The reason it is not offered more widely is the cost. It’s very expensive re staffing and most schools have to run if with A levels and some would have to run it with BTecs. It’s just one option too many when A levels are just fine for the vast majority.

43 points is a massive score. Few get this. The big problem has been that DC are coerced into IB because schools have invested in it but then DC find, at advanced level, they are not all rounders at all. So getting 30 points doesn’t feel great when you could have done better with 3 A levels. We toured a few schools offering IB and found students who admitted they had made a mistake and it wasn’t working for them and their likely score would be disappointing. Often they cited the maths/science element caused issues.

I do think many A level students are perfectly fine at university and engage with their study in a mature way. As the vast majority of students have A levels it’s a sweeping statement to say they cannot access degree level study in the same way. Of course they can! A levels in many subjects are decent prep and the personality of the DC and attitudes to study are also key factors.

I don’t think it’s worth seeking out IB these days. I also don’t believe admissions prefer it. Otherwise many top universities like Oxbridge and imperial would have lots of second class students who cannot do as well in their degrees. As Oxbridge is now accepting DC from state schools in very great numbers who won’t have got near the IB, I would say the IB doesn’t confer advantage. It’s merely stated by those justifying their decision to do it.

Even DC with mostly 9s at Gcse have favourite subjects. Ones they enjoy slightly more. My DD1 had stellar gcse results but could rationalise what she felt more comfortable with at A level. Most dc can project beyond gcse and look at where their overall strengths and interests lie. That is also a sign of maturity!

I agree it’s very expensive to run. If a school is running IB and A levels I would ensure that the IB offered has enough subject choices for your dd. Our local college offers the IB and A level and has nowhere near the subject variety that my ds had at his school which only offered IB.