Calling teachers - what could this comment mean?

[Faultymain5]

My daughter came home from school and I had to sign a sheet in her exercise book.

Firstly I suspect my daughter has APD (since primary school) and have been going backwards and forwards with the various schools/GPS all telling us they can’t do anything unless the other does something. We’ve given her tutors for her problem areas so she can at least keep up. But can’t do it for all.

Anyway she took a history test which she has been “revising” for for a couple weeks.

On the form she brought home today she has to write an explanation of what she did and what went wrong. it shows where she has put in the box that she used the revision sheet provided, understood some of what was on the sheet and memorised some of her notes. She also says she thought she could have focused more to have done better.

All this seems fine. The result was on her, but I’m aware of the time she took out to “revise” and leaving early for homework club in the mornings. I’m also aware she is a bit of a people pleaser.

I started looking through the work that was marked. The comments seemed fair up until the point where the teacher says “Learn how to start a paragraph”. Is this how some teachers deal with children? (nothing changed since my day) or is that comment helpful to a person if they don’t know how to write a paragraph?

Obviously I have to write that I’ve seen the test and the comments and all I can think is if the teacher talks to the kids this way regularly (my daughter has been complaining for a while, which I haven’t paid much attention to admittedly - new school, bedding in period), then no wonder she wants to drop history (used to be her favourite subject in the old school).

Surely if she needs to learn paragraph structuring this would have been picked up in the old school and even in this school in English. I’m concerned at rudeness/sarcasm being used as an educating tool. Think any issues we need to work together to sort them out, but it would be helpful to identify what they are first?

My DD was bullied in previous school so it’s impacting how I view things in this one.

OP: Well I would suggest if it’s too much to do their jobs to the best of their ability; if they do not feel supported by colleagues, parents or the system, then yes it’s time to leave.
This attitude is disgusting. I've just worked an almost 70 hour week as a Head of Faculty and, OP, posts like this make me wonder why I bother.

[quote Nellle]@Faulty

If the teacher is cold and discouraging in the classroom, I'd agree with you.

Are you judging the teacher's demeanour and relationship with your child based on one written comment that didn't contain a "please"?

By the sounds of it, the poor teacher would be doing better with you if they hadn't marked your child's work at all. [/quote]
From the original post “(my daughter has been complaining for a while, which I haven’t paid much attention to admittedly - new school, bedding in period).”

As an aside I actually had a teacher who refused to mark my work. Actually managed to get me in trouble with my parents for not doing homework that she refused to mark. I was doing well in French till then.

So yes relationships matter and I hold up to ignoring issues, cause, we’ll kids. But actually no, this is my child and it’s my duty to look out for her. If there is a teacher issue I need to know. If it’s exaggerated in my DD’s (or my) mind, that is also something I need to know. Hence why I asked the question.

It will just be a target.
Your child will always have targets regardless of how bright they are as it’s just something to work towards. It is not a negative thing at all.

At the end of the year they’ll go back over it and see if she can now do it and if she can they’ll give her a new target and if not then she’ll probably keep that target until she’s achieved it.

@surreygirl1987

OP: Well I would suggest if it’s too much to do their jobs to the best of their ability; if they do not feel supported by colleagues, parents or the system, then yes it’s time to leave. This attitude is disgusting. I've just worked an almost 70 hour week as a Head of Faculty and, OP, posts like this make me wonder why I bother.

Let me get this straight I support a teacher whose had enough to leave because they can no longer do their role or feel they can no longer do their role and/or is unsupported in their role and I’m wrong to say that and you’re offended?

Well I’m sorry you are offended, but it is literally crazy to stay in a situation that does not benefit you and that has a possibility to hurt others. I’d say the same to nurses, doctors and anyone else looking after other people. I literally feel like I’m in a twilight zone that continuing in that situation could be seen as a good thing?

If someone has forgotten to use a ruler or pencil or hasn’t written the title or date etc I’ll simply write the words ruler, title? Etc.

I don’t have time to beat around the bush and try and ask politely.
It also makes it difficult for pupils with things like dyslexia as there is more writing to read, so I try and keep my writing to a minimum.
I usually put a longer comment every few pages giving a more in-depth comment.

This thread is getting more and more ridiculous.

If your dd is really feeling 'like crap' because she was told to paragraph, then she and you both need to calm down a bit.

@Itstheweekendyasssss

You know what you want the replies to say OP, you are shooting down anyone who is not giving you what you want. Comments are blunt because of time, honestly. I am a teacher and know LOADS of teachers and I don’t know one who is hateful or sarcastic towards pupils. Never heard of one. Those days are gone. Have heard of many strange stories but truly always fond of the kids. So very unlikely that the tone is “sarcastic”. Jeez.

That is not true, you want me to not like the responses. Other than the ones that have been just rude I have said how I could have misinterpreted the comment, I’ve taken advice and even the sarcastic referral to Bitesize I took on the chin. If you can be bothered have another look. And even with people who have agreed with me I’ve offered that I could still be wrong. I came here to check.

I’m sure you have known lots of teachers and they were all lovely. But my mother taught me a long time ago, not to swear for anybody.

If someone can be snarky, yet helpful on Mumsnet, heaven knows what happens outside of mumsnet. Teachers are people.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

This thread is getting more and more ridiculous.

If your dd is really feeling 'like crap' because she was told to paragraph, then she and you both need to calm down a bit.

Thank you for your sympathy. I’m sure telling her to calm down will indeed calm her down. But I agree people are getting offended. People aren’t reading the OP thoroughly and generally it’s fine to be blunt on paper because the teacher will most likely be lovely in real life - contrary to what DD has said.

So it’s best to leave it.

It must be incredibly tiring looking for sarcasm in every mortal comment, all while being perfectly happy to be sarcastic and /or blunt in return- though none existed to start with. I hope your DD gets the support she needs from school, it’s a shame you’re too busy grinding that anti-teacher axe to actually help her yourself as a first action.

@Tippexy

OP: AIBU? MN: yes, very OP: no I’m not!

Another fiction that didn’t happen. RTFT You may want to note that this is not AIBU.

@SockFluffInTheBath

It must be incredibly tiring looking for sarcasm in every mortal comment, all while being perfectly happy to be sarcastic and /or blunt in return- though none existed to start with. I hope your DD gets the support she needs from school, it’s a shame you’re too busy grinding that anti-teacher axe to actually help her yourself as a first action.

Thanks for your comment. It was helpful.

Not sure I said I was against teachers. But I’m wary of teachers yes. Which is why I asked the question. However I know the mumsnet mantra “NATALT” except here the first A stands for “any” instead of “all”.

Not a teacher but I know that schools teach kids how to write a paragraph using acronyms. In primary they were told to use Point-Evidence-Explain. In secondary they had things like PETAL, PEEL as a reminder. PEEL I think is Point-Evidence-Explain-Link to original point

I think lots of people read the OP fully and told you that you were being a bit daft.

With sympathy, I still think you're being a bit daft. Over and out.

This is such a strange thing to get upset about. It’s just the teacher telling your child what she needs to do better, there’s no point in marking if we’re only allowed to write nice things. Is it the word ‘learn’ you don’t like? Do you not want her to learn this? I just write ‘ebi: use paragraphs’ is that better or worse for you?

In my view the child needs to be told how to use or start paragraphs and when it is appropriate to do so - saying learn how to start a new paragraph is like saying learn how to bake a cake with no instructions. Feedback needs to be specific

I was looking at my son's past paper and the comments were short "Learn acronyms" "Spelling!!!" He is fine with feedback like that - as someone who is dyslexic he gets the latter a lot.

Seriously though, for those that took the worriedly of a mum with a previously bullied child seriously (even if you found it and me ridiculous). Thank you

For all the teachers I’ve managed to offend. I’m deeply sorry I have done that I do respect the work you do because I know if I had to one of us DD or me would be in jail by name

And for the person writing right now coming on to insult me, don’t take it so bad, I probably deserved it. Once again thanks

I’ll try and find out. But it’s put her off which is not good as she previously enjoyed the subject even when she didn’t understand it all.

My history teacher relative said this is very common. History is taught in a very engaging way in Lower years so students opt for it, but then when they realise it’s actually very rigorous and mostly about writing well-structured essays, they lose interest. Sounds like this conflict is happening right now for your daughter and maybe not only about the teacher.

I do agree that the target written is totally unhelpful as it stands. However, there may context that your not aware of. In my marking (not history) we give short codes that relate to a longer target or explanation that would be written on the board or explained verbally. It’s to avoid spending a lot of time writing out the same long comment on lots of pieces of work, which does speed things up when you have a lots of marking. So it’s possibly that, but no way to know. I’d suggest as you’ve been asked to sign the form, it’s the perfect opportunity to respond and say that your daughter does not understand how to write in paragraphs and will there be more help on this?

She's your dds teacher, not her best friend. I think you are over reacting. Even if it was a bit snarky, just move on.

I'm a secondary teacher. I have hundreds of books to mark. Sometimes my comments could be read as blunt. I'm just doing it as fast as I can as I don't want to stay up all night.

@BananaPB

Not a teacher but I know that schools teach kids how to write a paragraph using acronyms. In primary they were told to use Point-Evidence-Explain. In secondary they had things like PETAL, PEEL as a reminder. PEEL I think is Point-Evidence-Explain-Link to original point

I think it's about this too. I remember dd struggling with it and having to look up PEEL to help her. It's something they learn in year 9 or 10 history I think. They will probably have talked about it but are only just starting to implement it, hence the comment, learn to use an opening paragraph, which is how they start with it.

In my view the child needs to be told how to use or start paragraphs and when it is appropriate to do so - saying learn how to start a new paragraph is like saying learn how to bake a cake with no instructions. Feedback needs to be specific

Most year 9s know what paragraphs are. The teacher is just preparing her for when she does exams and she’ll be marked on things like that.
If she doesn’t understand paragraphs she could ask the teacher to explain it to her or she could even ask an English teacher.

Argh cringe! Just spotted a ‘your / you’re’ mistake in my work ‘Learn to write proper English Lasy1576!!’

Personally, I would never write that as feedback because literacy isn't something you can leave just to the English department. IMO as a Humanities teacher, some kids really struggle to translate what they learn about sentence/paragraph structures to other subjects. Far more constructive to remind kids to avoid starting paragraphs with conjunctions or use the PEE structure etc etc. That usually jogs their memory in terms of what they know about paragraphs. Can't imagine just telling a child to "learn" something in that way is going to help them avoid making the same mistake again.