Calling teachers - what could this comment mean?

[Faultymain5]

My daughter came home from school and I had to sign a sheet in her exercise book.

Firstly I suspect my daughter has APD (since primary school) and have been going backwards and forwards with the various schools/GPS all telling us they can’t do anything unless the other does something. We’ve given her tutors for her problem areas so she can at least keep up. But can’t do it for all.

Anyway she took a history test which she has been “revising” for for a couple weeks.

On the form she brought home today she has to write an explanation of what she did and what went wrong. it shows where she has put in the box that she used the revision sheet provided, understood some of what was on the sheet and memorised some of her notes. She also says she thought she could have focused more to have done better.

All this seems fine. The result was on her, but I’m aware of the time she took out to “revise” and leaving early for homework club in the mornings. I’m also aware she is a bit of a people pleaser.

I started looking through the work that was marked. The comments seemed fair up until the point where the teacher says “Learn how to start a paragraph”. Is this how some teachers deal with children? (nothing changed since my day) or is that comment helpful to a person if they don’t know how to write a paragraph?

Obviously I have to write that I’ve seen the test and the comments and all I can think is if the teacher talks to the kids this way regularly (my daughter has been complaining for a while, which I haven’t paid much attention to admittedly - new school, bedding in period), then no wonder she wants to drop history (used to be her favourite subject in the old school).

Surely if she needs to learn paragraph structuring this would have been picked up in the old school and even in this school in English. I’m concerned at rudeness/sarcasm being used as an educating tool. Think any issues we need to work together to sort them out, but it would be helpful to identify what they are first?

My DD was bullied in previous school so it’s impacting how I view things in this one.

As a teacher I would never give feedback like that as the child can’t possibly action it, suggesting that your DD learn how to do something that she clearly doesn’t understand how to do is absurd!

if she needs extra help we’re happy to help, but both she and we need to know what help she needs, we need to know what she doesn’t know.
It took me all of 30 seconds to find an article on paragraphs on BBC Bitesize.

@Roses

The teacher's relationship with the student and actions/words in the classroom should do this. And they will build on and refer back to their written targets.

Teachers shouldn't be giving themselves burnout wasting time making their marking sound warm and fuzzy for the benefit of parents.

I’m unsure of the point that you’re making here? You’re assuming teachers don’t know how to write?
Obviously, those teachers probably went through the same education as you.. I think you’re just generalising with a bit of association bias.
Pupils should be taught about structure in primary school, they are then given paragraph plans etc to aid this at the beginning of secondary.
If a pupil reads, this will help with learning how to paragraph/structure innately. But the majority of students do not read for pleasure anymore.
The child was completing a history test- paragraphing is probably not taught in history, regardless.
So, I’m assuming your issue is with the curriculum?

And we wonder why so many teachers stop
Teaching after a few years.

Maybe you could show your daughter how to write in paragraph

Was probably the 60th book the teacher marked that day and they wanted to finish and see their own kids

@RosesAndHellebores

I don't think it's remotely motivating. It's an issue that needs to be remedied but the teacher needs to suggest a solution re the remedy. It's an inappropriate way to provide feedback imo.

What's APD?

Auditory processing disorder. It presents as dyslexia, she had a test for dyslexia years ago, they said she had apd and was likely to grow out of it. She needs to sit up front as she doesn’t hear sounds properly (french is a bitch). She needs things repeated (a lot) to retain things. She however has good technical and science skills, unfortunately wordy questions in maths and science can throw her and remembering formulas can be a bit of a trial.

@OnceuponaRainbow18

And we wonder why so many teachers stop Teaching after a few years.

Maybe you could show your daughter how to write in paragraph

Was probably the 60th book the teacher marked that day and they wanted to finish and see their own kids

Well I would suggest if it’s too much to do their jobs to the best of their ability; if they do not feel supported by colleagues, parents or the system, then yes it’s time to leave.

If you’re only rebuttal for a blunt (I think we’re going with blunt), yet somehow unhelpful piece of feedback is “do it yourself”. That only explains you.

[quote Nellle]@Roses

The teacher's relationship with the student and actions/words in the classroom should do this. And they will build on and refer back to their written targets.

Teachers shouldn't be giving themselves burnout wasting time making their marking sound warm and fuzzy for the benefit of parents. [/quote]
How about the benefit of the child? I didn’t point it out to my DD. It’s what she pointed out to me. So a piece of advice, if you sh*t on most people they tend not to respond well. Try being a human first. Fuzzy will get more out of children.

So basically if a teacher doesn’t meet parental standards in imaginary tone, they should quit?
Teaching has changed beyond comprehension in the past few years and it’s this entitled attitude that has done it.
You seem to think you know what a teacher should be writing (even if you claimed at the start of this thread that you didn’t) and now also determine how’s best to do their job..even though you aren’t a teacher..

@senua

if she needs extra help we’re happy to help, but both she and we need to know what help she needs, we need to know what she doesn’t know. It took me all of 30 seconds to find an article on paragraphs on BBC Bitesize.

Thank you for that I’ll get DD to take a look. Nice to know where my £13 a month is going.

Aha, auditory processing disorder is significant here, are learning support on board?

@Michellexxx

So basically if a teacher doesn’t meet parental standards in imaginary tone, they should quit? Teaching has changed beyond comprehension in the past few years and it’s this entitled attitude that has done it. You seem to think you know what a teacher should be writing (even if you claimed at the start of this thread that you didn’t) and now also determine how’s best to do their job..even though you aren’t a teacher..

so let me get this straight I’m querying if I’m wrong in my interpretation, a group of teachers (the experts so the best people to ask) say yes, this is normal, a smaller group of others say it could be said better but…

I then support any teachers who’ve had enough of parents (not immediately having a go at the teacher for tone), enough of not being supported by colleagues and the system, by saying yes they should leave if it stops them enjoying their job and doing it well. But I’m the problem. I should a la mumsnet defer to anything the teacher says and question nothing. Have I got that right?

I know how the statement made my daughter feel so do I know how a teacher should write? only insofar as it shouldn’t make my daughter feel like crap.

I don't think it's meant to be sarcastic, and is a valid target to work on. But I completely agree with you that the best thing for the teacher to do would be to teach your daughter how to do this, or at the least explain what they mean. I'm guessing they mean they should start with a topic sentence which clearly sets out what the paragraph is about?

Please don't get hung up on this though as it's not important in the scheme of things. Try to find out more about why your daughter no longer enjoys the subject though as that sounds concerning.

@Essexmum321

Aha, auditory processing disorder is significant here, are learning support on board?

Nope. We haven’t been able to get help for her. We’ve given instructions on what has worked in the past and hope the teachers follow them. For tests in her old school and primary she got extra time. Not so far here.

OP: AIBU?
MN: yes, very
OP: no I’m not!

@Tippexy

OP: AIBU? MN: yes, very OP: no I’m not!

Well, apart from all of those of us on the thread saying that she’s not being unreasonable

Goodness me, it’s feedback the teacher has given your daughter- she should take it on board, or communicate with the teacher if she needs further guidance.

How can second guessing the teachers intention and speculating on the tone be helpful?

@Athomewiththehales89

As a teacher I would never give feedback like that as the child can’t possibly action it, suggesting that your DD learn how to do something that she clearly doesn’t understand how to do is absurd!

And yet we have about 100+ Collective years of teaching saying it’s okay. Thanks for your feedback as a lay person I agree.

I guess each teacher has their own style and DD’s only way to escape is to ensure she doesn’t have this head of year as a teacher. She otherwise loves this school.

I wouldn’t write it this way as I feel like it’s my job to teach how to do things not instruct a child to learn how to do things (regardless of if they have been taught before or how old they are!) I’m confident my colleagues would all do the same. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest a ‘please remember paragraphs’. Yes teachers have a lot of marking and yes we all make mistakes with phrasing but I do try to be conscious of how students (& parents!) might read comments and soften them where possible.

It never takes long to see the true colours of posters like this.

Did we find out what the alleged sarcasm was?

@Faulty

If the teacher is cold and discouraging in the classroom, I'd agree with you.

Are you judging the teacher's demeanour and relationship with your child based on one written comment that didn't contain a "please"?

By the sounds of it, the poor teacher would be doing better with you if they hadn't marked your child's work at all.

@DragonDoor

Goodness me, it’s feedback the teacher has given your daughter- she should take it on board, or communicate with the teacher if she needs further guidance.

How can second guessing the teachers intention and speculating on the tone be helpful?

Because I haven’t seen feedback like that before. Previous teachers and DS’ actually gave instruction they could follow. And my DS had some, shall we say interesting teachers at his school. So meaning and tone - and can I once again reiterate this was pointed out by DD not me - is very important in order for us to attempt to action anything.

Honestly it's just a hint as to how she can improve her performance. Either she knows paragraph structure & she was lazy & needs to step up next time, or it's an area of weakness that she needs to study it again & improve. At this age they expect independent learning & for them to be able to use Google to find a tutorial on what they need to learn.

Because I haven’t seen feedback like that before. Previous teachers and DS’ actually gave instruction they could follow. And my DS had some, shall we say interesting teachers at his school. So meaning and tone - and can I once again reiterate this was pointed out by DD not me - is very important in order for us to attempt to action anything.

Have previous teachers ever used this same feedback format where students are asked to reflect on their own work and state how they could improve it?

Just because you haven’t seen it before, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a sound pedagogical basis for taking this approach.

& If your worried that your DD is struggling with this because of potential ASD, speak to the school senco. But this is a perfectly reasonable & helpful comment

You've obviously been through it with the last school. This is a fresh start, try & keep a more open mind for yours & your DDs sake