Anyone here is super involved with their dc school work/revision?

[guest103]

By super involved I mean, making sure they do their homework, actually sit down with them and make sure they are doing it right. Also revise everyday with them, making sure they are doing extra work and revising etc, organizing all their revision materials. Almost as if you are their teacher/tutor?
I do all of this, I guess the reason why I do it is to make sure dc achieves the best results possible and I know dc wouldn't do revision properly if I wasn't super involved. I do believe dc would still get great results but not as good as the results achieved with my help. At school dc picks up everything easily and participates and does very well, so perhaps I should just trust dc more and back off a bit? I just can't do it for some reason.
Wonder if anyone is/was in this situation?

I don’t do as much as you describe. I make sure they’ve got their homework under control and that it’s all complete. I don’t sit with them whilst they do it though.
I do sit with them to revise for tests and exams. The school doesn’t teach some things that well so I make sure that for tests and exams that they cover it using cgp books/bbc bitesize. Doing good revision from year 7 meant that my son didn’t have to revise too much for GCSEs and achieved 8s and 9s, so I’m doing the same with my daughter.

My son is doing A levels now and I’m only occasionally checking that he’s got it all under control. He manages his own workload now and knows how to revise from earlier years.

writing takes forever, so being able to answer orally is a much more efficient way of doing things for her, her oral processing is good - but that means I need to be there asking those questions.

If you haven't already Tassomai - which is expensive, seneca, quizlet - and other on-line sites can help with general revision knowing subject area - though still need exam style questions on top.

Duolingo is good for plodding away in background with languages.

So I do ask Y8 to do duolingo every day and GCSE DS as well. There's quiet a few good on-lines out there which can help with general revision.

I found my own tape recording with language and summary diagrams helped me but then I wasn't lucky enough to have someone to ask questions verbally to me.

Anyone had any success in getting a school to up its game re homework??

No. Same issue here they set little to no homework - maths department is the exception there though they use mathswatch - which cuts doen on marking for teachers but means homework is regularly set.

Honestly I'd keep an eye on it - as we've found things have been missed or rushed though last minute in later years. Also found some teachers had given DD2 impression that revision was optional - rather than something she really should have been doing before all tests.

When we moved here the school was under a different head and had made huge steps forward with results - it's been quite frightening how quickly it's deteriorated.

I think there are reasons to be involved even in later secondary but the ideal is teach them the study skills early and then offer support as needed. If there at a good school and have no underlying problems that's much easier to do.

Depends on the child - my son gets on with it himself but will ask when he feels he needs help. My daughters need more watching over to make sure they’re doing the work (& reading instructions as they should be!)

Thanks @inferiorCatSlave. Our problem is that DD finds Tassomai boring and frustrating, which means the ADHD really kicks in (my DS loved Tassomai and used it, as well as Seneca and Quizlet, before finding Anki and deciding that was the best of all, he used Anki all the way through his A levels). Having been through this with my DD now, I think that actually my DS may have a mild form of ADHD (which is maybe why I needed to help him as much as I did in the years up until Year 9), but he has a lot of compensatory strengths (including a very high level of competitiveness - which may be a bad thing in lots of ways, but helped motivate him to study). He had/has some of the hyper aspects of ADHD, which meant he was sometimes in trouble for calling out, but because he was motivated and interested in class, mostly the teachers just tolerated it. DD isn't hyper at all - she spent most of primary school daydreaming away in the corner, but she woke up enough to pick up enough to do OK, and nobody asked more of her. And part of what i have needed to do over the years is to work out which subjects she is zoning out in, and make sure the content is covered at home. But the risk of sitting her in front of a computer with something like Tassomai is that she will just go off to planet Zorg and you have to come in and haul her back. On the other hand, if you actually ask her to research a topic from scratch and teach herself from videos and the like online, it is really surprising how well she does. She reckons her chemistry teacher is getting them to do that (I am not sure, I wonder if DD is missing learning the content in class which is why she needs to teach herself it to do the homework) - but the reality is that she has done a really good job of teaching herself a lot of the content for chemistry. She uses a lot of youtube videos, which she can stop and start. She is also a painfully slow typist - it is even worse than the writing, which is so, so, slow it is unbelievable. So for now at least the most effective thing seems to be for me to sit down with her and we work through a practice book or flashcards (eg the CGP ones), and I either have her read or read the questions to her and have her answer orally, which means she needs to stay engaged.
I had not been keen on getting her diagnosed, as I worried about her blaming her condition and not applying herself, but for me it is helpful to understand that we really are dealing with a form of SEN (two forms of SEN, actually), and it is not just that I am some sort of helicopter mother when I do what just seems essential to give her the best chance she has.

Part of the other weird thing is that she is really good at languages, she is doing two for GCSE, and they were her top results in the year 10 exams. She picks up vocab really easily, and it is such a relief to have 25% on the oral (ie playing to her oral skills). She is doing this thing of writing a new word a day, one on each hand, one in the one language and one in the other (looks awful, but I am not going to interfere). She wants to do one of them for A levels (probably French), although I am a bit worried that at A level there will be more literature analysis and sustained writing (where the ADHD might mean she gets lost and goes off on a tangent, as happens in English a lot). But presumably there is still an oral component for A levels (she said hoping).

Helped ds a lot in his NAT5 exam year, not with the subject content but with the things the school didnt help him with - revision techniques, stationary, study timetable, revision guides, finding useful websites, marking past papers for him and making sure he learned from his mistakes etc.

Helped a little with Highers last year, but more just a nudge to start early enough/supporting instead. Helped with testing him with the French flash cards he made up and remembering his presentation/talk

This year I have been supportive, but have left him to it for his advanced highers.

It is fine to help/guide in the beginning, but also need to let go as they advance through the exam years, especially if they plan to go to uni/college where they will need to study independently.

I have three in secondary. I check they have done their homework, ask what they are studying and act interested. I make sure they are passing (they have a 4 mark system for homework). I help when they need it. They sometimes ask me to help them revise. Two of these DC have SEN and one has an EHCP. For that child, I have to sometimes really help them as they have a problem with inference and abstract language. I will need to help until GCSE, but it won’t be an a level subject for them, so it is just to ensure they get the gcse mark needed for secondary.

it is not just that I am some sort of helicopter mother when I do what just seems essential to give her the best chance she has.

I wasn't trying to imply you were helicoptering - and I get the wanting to give them the best chance.

All mine struggle with other languages - problem they have with English not hearing all the sounds in words, spelling not rememebering vocab lists beyond tests all occur with other languges. Going over things at home with something like dulingo is frankly marvlous for them.

DS wants to do maths and science A-level once we get him there he'll be fine as they are areas of strength for him- but I still want him to get decent grades/best he can with English Lit and Language and other subjects.

They are also very like me - plodders as my parents described it - needing to digest things and needing lots and lots of pratcise and repetition - and we've enocuntered some departments and teachers who do very last minute data dumps which doesn't suit them it's a huge reason why DS was struggling with English Lit this half term. Clearly many of the other pupils are fine with it - plus increasibgly many have tutors as well.

@Naem

Part of the other weird thing is that she is really good at languages, she is doing two for GCSE, and they were her top results in the year 10 exams. She picks up vocab really easily, and it is such a relief to have 25% on the oral (ie playing to her oral skills). She is doing this thing of writing a new word a day, one on each hand, one in the one language and one in the other (looks awful, but I am not going to interfere). She wants to do one of them for A levels (probably French), although I am a bit worried that at A level there will be more literature analysis and sustained writing (where the ADHD might mean she gets lost and goes off on a tangent, as happens in English a lot). But presumably there is still an oral component for A levels (she said hoping).

Naem assuming that she is looking at AQA (but so check which board her school does; AQA is the most common) the breakdown and weighting is roughly:

50% language paper - listening comp inc summary, reading comp inc summary, translation to and from target language.

30% speaking inc a stimulus card on a topic studied and a presentation and extended discussion on a topic of the student's choice (related to subject eg French football team, French film, aspect of French culture and life)

20% writing paper - analysis of a film and a book, two essays of about 300 words; half the marks here are for the language and half for the analysis.

Hope that is helpful; EdExcel also offer A level and I believe the breakdown is similar.

@ShadesOfMagenta

I am really involved at the moment with DS Y9 because his comprehensive set practically no homework - now he has tests in Science & Maths with no guidance from the school apart from look on BBC bitesize.

I now have him in a routine of at least 1 hour per day - and he is using textbooks & revision guides I’ve bought for him.

I’m absolutely planning for a withdrawal of support but I will also have to teach him to set his own ‘homework’ and in the absence of course of school marking or feeding back - I will do this instead.

Anyone had any success in getting a school to up its game re homework??

Ds's school is the same, he found it difficult at first, but long term it was good because he could focus his time in areas he found the hardest.

Get him to ask the school where he can find resources for Q+A so he can mark any work he does.

For topics such as English where you can't just follow a marking scheme ds asked the teacher and they agreed to give feedback on any work he did.

Thanks @WeAllHaveWings -I’m starting to think that if the school did start setting more homework it wouldn’t be useful/the right things - so maybe ploughing our own furrow will work out next...

My mom was very hands on whenever I had math homework. But mostly I did it myself with the exception of math. Without her help, I know I would have literally failed math.

@clary Really helpful. The school does AQA for GCSE, so likely to do AQA for A level, I suspect. That sounds really good from DD's perspective. So effectively only 10% on analysis - assuming she can use good language, and 30% on stimulus card. Translation is generally a strength. And 300 words is not so long so less likely to wander off. Are there any specific French animals or wildlife I wonder - likely to be more what DD would want to talk about. She is obsessed with animals. Does it have to be France/French? Could she talk about animals in, say, Madagascar or somewhere French speaking (French speaking Canada)?

@Naem yes for sure, as long as there is the material to speak about and discuss. She has to present for two mins and then disgusts for 10. I had a student talking about a festival in a German speaking country but not Germany.

yy just 10% of total marks are for the actual analysis of book and film. Tbf tho it's hard to score highly on the language 10% if you don't have anything much to say. But theoretically possible.

You tend to spend a disproportionate amount of time on the book and film, esp the book, but that's hard to avoid. And you are learning and improving target language while you do so as well of course.

sorry, discuss not disgusts, iPad hates me.

yy just 10% of total marks are for the actual analysis of book and film. Tbf tho it's hard to score highly on the language 10% if you don't have anything much to say. But theoretically possible.

With English she is able to write paragraphs and it is correct language, it is just that she doesn't necessarily answer the question or give them what they want. Might end up more discursive/descriptive. Might be hard for the markers to genuinely separate I guess. Anyway, does sound good for her particular skills.

I did have to give DD a bit of a nudge when it came to revising for her GCSEs. I printed off past papers for maths and her science subjects.

By the time it came to A levels it was all beyond me. I couldn't help with A level biology and chemistry content. I tested her when she asked me. I proofread her geography NEA because she asked me to.

Even now at university she sometimes asks me to proof read her assignments. I don't understand them, but I can spell and grammar check them. (I have had to do a lot of proof reading at work)

Not here but I have friends who have always run a very tight ship when it comes to family life and education.
Music lessons, sporting activities, supervised homework and revision every day after school and at weekends.
Their DC are very bright and their life is structured around work, school and other purposeful activities. Pizza /film night is scheduled in and it’s all about routine.

They spend the majority of their time as a family unit. No doubt their DC will go on to achieve brilliant things but I certainly don’t have their discipline.

Currently more involved that we would like to be DS is fairly bright but an expert at coasting. Given the choice he will work at school at an A but at home it is a solid D. We are supervising homework to ensure that the effort at home matches the school work. He is rushing through to play on his computer games or watch films or YouTube

@kitkat6 To prevent rushing through work to get to the games console, we got ds into a routine early where he did a set minimum amount of time each night on homework + revision. It was especially effective for him as he got very little homework and it got him into the habit of independent revision.

He could skip it if he had somewhere to go but not just to get on the games console.

@spondoolikay

I work at a university and would say the kids that struggle most are those with the most involved parents. They've not learned how to do self directed study and really find it hard.

Really? And hoe do you know how involved the parents were? This is like the ‘any child who has tutoring for entrance exams will fail to cope’ fallacy. I was very involved in the early years and continued to support where I could, help interpreting mark schemes, maths with DS, planning time with DD. Both excelled in exams and in their degrees at Oxford and KCL.

@Pottedpalm Exactly. I'm a law lecturer at a university in London and have absolutely no clue whether or not my students's parents are or ever were involved in their studies. How would I know

I know someone who does this too. Her eldest is 16 and should have been sitting National 5s last May but obviously didn't and was having continuous assessment instead. I met her for coffee and she was all "Oh I have to get home and read up on Oliver's physics so we can study before his test tonight, and it's French next week so I'm off to the library to take out loads of books"... and my face was

Lots of reasons I don't do this. I have three children for a start, two were doing school "exams" last year. The older one was doing subjects I have no clue about like Advanced Higher Biology/Chemistry. I work part time, DH works full time, I am half way through a part time Masters.

And where do you draw the line? Part of starting to take exams is learning to organise yourself! Draw up a study timetable, perhaps with assistance the first time. Organise yourself. Work out what you need to concentrate on and what you're comfortable with. School do loads on this, study skills and how to revise. Parents do not need to be involved.

Or are all these mothers who are organising it all and supervising it all and tutoring it all going to be drawing up timetables when their dc are in their Honours year at Uni?

@WeAllHaveWings

We take a similar approach here. What minimum amount of time did you/do you expect to be spent on revision?

Surely your role as a parent is primarily to raise your children to become independent.

I agree with the above, although I'd assume that most parents need to provide some support to their teens to ensure their work gets done well and on time. In my very limited experience of DD (16) and DS (13), they become more independent study-wise around 15/16.
DD still asks me to proofread her essays and DH sometimes helps explain Maths concepts to her - she's in an advanced class so it's beyond artsy me. Essentially, she's now realised that working hard will benefit her, it's not to please her parents. She's self-motivated.

DS(13) OTOH, needs more encouragement and sometimes nagging to get everything done. I think/hope this will change as he matures, but he procrastinates now. He does do well at school, but he needs prodding!