Gav scraps level 3 BTECs in an act of educational vandalism

[noblegiraffe]

Everyone is talking about a piffling amount of funding for Latin, which was the plan, as Gav has just made the extraordinary decision to defund and then scrap level 3 BTECs by 2023.

44 per cent of white working-class students who enter university have studied at least one BTEC and 37 per cent of black students enter with only BTEC qualifications so disadvantaged kids will be particularly affected by this decision.

The rationale is that the government's flagship T-level programme isn't going very well due to schools and colleges preferring well-known and tested qualifications, so the solution is to get rid of them and force kids onto the new courses.

www.tes.com/news/lord-baker-scrapping-btecs-act-vandalism

I hoped you'd start a thread on this.

Things I don't understand:

• what does this mean for level 2 BTECs?
• how can you scrap BTECs before the T levels are in place properly?
• how are they going to ensure that the (large) amounts of work experience needed for T-levels are available
• does this mean people can no longer mix and match, eg 2 A levels & 1 BTEC certificate
• where does City & Guilds fit into all of this (which is what DD is going to start)?

What?
Gav strikes again eh?

When do t levels start?

Oh, and I did Latin GCSE and personally think it was a great waste of time. We learned the translation for the set books off by heart "Turnus was amazed, confused by the shifting picture of events, he stood there staring and speechless". I'm not saying offering it is a bad thing, but it is hardly the priority right now, is it?

They'd be much better off:

• sorting MFL teaching in primary
• working out what is happening to GCSEs next year
• catch up tuition for the kids who missed out in the last 18 months
• or just funding CAMHS properly so teachers can teach not act as emergency social workers / mental health supporters.

Disgusting.

BTECs and their forerunners ONC/D have been recognised by industries for decades.

For some jobs they are more useful than A Levels, give me a BTEC student nurse of one with just A Levels anyday.

This is outrageous. The man is a bloody lunatic.

I've just remembered AVCEs and GNVQs - they worked so well didn't they?

I dont really know how the content of BTEC and T Levels compare to be honest or how they are delivered.

what does this mean for level 2 BTECs?

I guess they will continue as there is no alternative.

how can you scrap BTECs before the T levels are in place properly?

I think the issue is that because BTECs exist and are good, colleges aren’t offering T-levels.

It’s like when they stopped IGCSEs counting in the league tables to force schools into taking the new GCSEs even though they were a mess.

how are they going to ensure that the (large) amounts of work experience needed for T-levels are available

That will be up to schools and colleges to sort so they don’t care.

Astonishing and appalling.

But sure, let's give a few more kids the opportunity to study a language which is likely to be neither of use nor ornament to them. The most elitist (non) solution to elitism possible?

Well it's done the job, edutwitter is raging about Latin. Barely a mention of BTECs.

noble Did you know the answer to my last 2 questions (mix&match and city&guilds?)

I mean, there's no reason why you should, being a maths teacher and everything, but you do keep yourself (& MN) v. well informed.

I feel very sad, I left school at 15 with no qualifications. At work with 2 kids I realised I needed qualifications and I did day release to get a BTEC level 3 which got me into the local uni. I enjoyed my BTEC so much.

I don't know much about T-levels, tbh, Teen, my school doesn't offer them (but will soon, obviously!). We've got loads of kids who do A-level maths and a science and BTEC engineering, I've no idea how the T-level compares in terms of content and whether they'd then have reduced options at uni.

The T-level is equivalent to 3 A-levels so yes, no mix and matching.

They're binning any course that overlaps with T-levels so that could include City and Guilds I guess.

I went to a Grammar school, studied Latin got 11 GCSEs and 4 Alevels (plus an AS).

My elder DD was additional needs. She is so excited by the range of vocational subjects she could study at school. Latin would not help her in the least when she struggles enough with English spelling and writing (her reading is catching up).

Children like her should be able to enjoy school too.

When you say by 2023, do you mean for courses starting then or finishing? My ds is hoping to do a WJEC Food Level 3 diploma, a BTEC certificate in sport and an A Level. He’s going into year 11. I desperately don’t want these options taken away from him. He’s bright but has ADHD and only really works if the subject interests him. He’s obsessed with food, nutrition and exercise!

Simply outrageous. Thanks for bringing OP, I for one was not aware. It could also be taken as an act of discrimination against students not suited to the 'one exam counts for everything / in or out' approach, who will be left with much less choice and narrower and limited career paths. Not good for some individuals not society as a whole.

I think what Williamson may be trying to do is to accelerate the time that some people get into the workforce. Talk about plugging the skills gap .... wonder what prompted it 🤔

I am still struggling to work out how we will deliver T levels. They require so much employer engagement yet we cannot find relevant work experience for all of our students even in a big area such as Manchester. I'm also really worried about how much it narrows options at 16; we deliber Engineering, Science, Health & Social Care and Sport from Extended Certificate to Extended Diploma so students can gain a wide range of experiences and study. T levels offer none of that but push the academic demand up even more.

So you won’t be able to mix and match? Surely that seriously reduces the amount of kids attending local 6th forms.
DS1 has just finished Y11, he is hopefully doing 3 A levels but most of his friends are doing a mix of Btecs and A levels. His girlfriend for example is doing A level English plus a BTEC in Health and Social Care. I’m assuming the just finished Y11’s will be the last year to access them?

I hadn't thought about adult learners. This from 2019:

www.tes.com/news/why-btecs-should-not-be-replaced-t-levels

"The size of the qualification also means that many of our students won’t be able to combine study with part-time work – for some of them, that is the only way they can continue in any form of learning.

It is easy to forget that many of the learners at FE colleges are adults, with financial obligations and children to provide for. Adult learners are dedicated and ambitious – that is why they have gone back to college to upskill – but there is no realistic possibility that working mums and dads will be able to do a minimum of 45 days unpaid work to secure a qualification."

I found this list of qualifications facing the chop from 2019, I assume that it hasn't changed. Teen it does include City and Guilds.

schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-76-btecs-facing-the-axe-in-post-16-qualifications-review/

crazy It would be courses starting in 2023 so your DS should be ok.

I’ve just left teaching in FE but colleagues report considerable T level training happening, though not particularly informative or useful.

One of our partner institutions is offering T Levels and from the briefings etc we’ve received they seem to be an absolute load of nonsense. They don’t have the work placements for the students, they’re offered in tiny numbers and the entry requirements are so stringent that axing BTECs essentially means there are going to end up no options for students who struggle at GCSE. This should be a national scandal.