Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Gav scraps level 3 BTECs in an act of educational vandalism

102 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/08/2021 11:22

Everyone is talking about a piffling amount of funding for Latin, which was the plan, as Gav has just made the extraordinary decision to defund and then scrap level 3 BTECs by 2023.

44 per cent of white working-class students who enter university have studied at least one BTEC and 37 per cent of black students enter with only BTEC qualifications so disadvantaged kids will be particularly affected by this decision.

The rationale is that the government's flagship T-level programme isn't going very well due to schools and colleges preferring well-known and tested qualifications, so the solution is to get rid of them and force kids onto the new courses.

www.tes.com/news/lord-baker-scrapping-btecs-act-vandalism

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 02/08/2021 16:49

To be clear , they aren't scrapping vocational qualifications : it's not supposed to be A Levels or nothing. It is supposed to streamline things and there is a common compliant about too many different qualifications being confusing. It makes sense : or would do if T Levels were introduced carefully, thoughtfully and openly.

titchy · 02/08/2021 19:07

It would make sense if T levels didn't come in a one size fits all shape. Having one A level equivalent BTECs to allow kids to mix and match was a hugely successful option for many many kids, particularly those from WP backgrounds.

The uni sector is really pissed off with it and the effect it will undoubtedly have on non-white non-MC non-leafy comp non-sharp-elbowed-parent kids. Sad

Coronateachingagain · 02/08/2021 20:33

@LynetteScavo

They don’t have the work placements for the students, they’re offered in tiny numbers and the entry requirements are so stringent that axing BTECs essentially means there are going to end up no options for students who struggle at GCSE. This should be a national scandal.

Absolutely - I don't really care what the name is of the qualifications my DC take, but in need them to be able to take something which will mean they can go to university without the pressure of final exams.

Exactly. I know a brilliant kid with ADHD who made it through the other side of a level 3 business BTEC. No way he could have gone through the one shot style A level exams. He has grown up so much, and BTECs really suited him, and starting uni at Bristol this September.
Peregrina · 02/08/2021 22:20

I wonder if the current ministers still have memories of the time when Btecs were not as good.

I wonder if the Current ministers have the foggiest idea about BTECs, full stop. Never mind that they are a tried and tested and well respected qualification.

Worldwide21 · 02/08/2021 22:30

Sorry if it's been covered. What's the purpose of T levels if BTECs are adequate. There must be a market for them. Also why are colleges said to be resistant to preparing for T levels. Just curious as looking at future options for younger dc.

Starlightstarbright1 · 02/08/2021 22:44

Ffs...

I have a ds going into year 10. He wants to be a chef., has asd/ adhd.

I have just got my head round the grading system. Got my head round btech at college or apprenticeship.

Never heard of a T level..

How can i help him when its constantly changing.

caringcarer · 02/08/2021 23:04

This is sickening. My son with additional needs just finished year 10 and is taking level 2 BTEC's in Food and Sport along with GCSE's in Maths and double science. Functional skills in English. He was hoping to do BTEC in Sport level 3 and a cricket coaching and umpire course as he is obsessed with cricket. Don't know how to shatter his dreams.

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 02/08/2021 23:06

@Worldwide21

Sorry if it's been covered. What's the purpose of T levels if BTECs are adequate. There must be a market for them. Also why are colleges said to be resistant to preparing for T levels. Just curious as looking at future options for younger dc.
The government no longer consider BTECs adequate essentially.

Colleges are resistant to T Levels because they require significant work placements which are A LOT of work to source, arrange etc

caringcarer · 02/08/2021 23:07

I'm going to complain to my MP. Bloody furious.

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 02/08/2021 23:09

@Starlightstarbright1 @caringcarer as I understand it the funding will be withdrawn from 2023 starts onwards, so if your sons have just finished Y10 they’ll be able to do Level 3 BTECs after their GCSEs as funding will still be in place

BabyRace · 02/08/2021 23:24

Fuck! They kept that quiet. I wonder where their thousands of nurses are going to come from now.

Also, as a smaller side note, this may now see me out of teaching. T levels are not workable enough to keep my KS4-5 role viable.

Nat6999 · 03/08/2021 00:04

What will happen to children like my nephew who aren't able to sit GCSE's due to learning disabilities who usually do BTEC's instead at 16 & further BTEC's until they are 19? I know he wouldn't be able to do T levels as he wouldn't be able to cope with the work. If they can't do suitable qualifications what hope is there of them ever getting any kind of a job? I know all he wants to do is work in a cafe as he loves cooking.

Piggywaspushed · 03/08/2021 06:31

Another issue with T Levels, as I understand it, is that you cannot gain one unless you have (by the end) a grade 4 (or equivalent?) in English and maths GCSE. This may well be a noble aim to make sure those holding the T Levels reach a standard if they need to, but it is out of step with even A Levels. You don't need a GCSE grade 4 in English or maths to pass an A Level. Most may well have it, but not by any means all. An A level in, say, history isn't withheld from a student because they can't get a 4 in GCSE maths.

Piggywaspushed · 03/08/2021 06:33

T Levels also fit in with this government's obsession with exams : I didn't realise that they all must include examined content.

LeuvenMan · 03/08/2021 06:36

My son struggled a bit at school (severely dyslexic, however we paid for private tuition which made a massive difference) and wasn't academic.
He opted for a BTEC at a local college, which was absolutely the making of him.
It would be an absolute travesty if they were abolished, as they really help many kids

toolazytothinkofausername · 03/08/2021 06:45

Is there a government petition?

toolazytothinkofausername · 03/08/2021 06:49

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/592642

Yes there is Grin

frogsarejumpy · 03/08/2021 07:05

This is outrageous. T levels are very focused in one area, eg Business T Level means you have narrowed early to just business. My ds wants to do Business Btech, with A level Geography and A level Economics to keep options open. This will be impossible from 2023. A levels or narrow focus at 16 with T levels or apprenticeships. Very limited choices. Kids with additional needs going to be massively affected.

toolazytothinkofausername · 03/08/2021 07:16

Plus with t-levels you must do English and maths too, and if you fail English or maths you fail the entire course Shock

On tv I now call channel 231 BBC Propaganda, as it only stuffs down our throats the government's agenda!

Elephantsparade · 03/08/2021 07:19

Im very worried about my childs prospects now. His sen school doesnt do gcses and the aim for the more able is to do btecs

spotcheck · 03/08/2021 07:22

@Whyarewehardofthinking

I am still struggling to work out how we will deliver T levels. They require so much employer engagement yet we cannot find relevant work experience for all of our students even in a big area such as Manchester. I'm also really worried about how much it narrows options at 16; we deliber Engineering, Science, Health & Social Care and Sport from Extended Certificate to Extended Diploma so students can gain a wide range of experiences and study. T levels offer none of that but push the academic demand up even more.
That is exactly what I wanted to say - except I'm from a much smaller area. I'm just amazed that anyone genuinely thinks T levels has legs; there's no way students will be able to gain the experience needed.

For the life of me, I don't understand why they don't just tweak BTecs if needed.

sandgrown · 03/08/2021 07:22

My son’s tutors at college suspect he has undiagnosed ADHD . With their help and support he has just completed level 3 BTECH Business. He so nearly dropped out and was on a warning many times but I am very proud he has completed the course . There is no way he would have managed the pressure of A level exams. Kids like him may be left with no options.

itsgettingwierd · 03/08/2021 07:23

@Mumteedum

When do t levels start?
Some started this year.

Ds is doing one.

itsgettingwierd · 03/08/2021 07:27

Yes the amount of time dedicated to a T level is high.

Ds does 3 dull days 9-4/4.30 at college, 1 day placement and a 9-3.

TeenMinusTests · 03/08/2021 07:30

The other issue with work experience is actually getting there.
Many areas are not well served by bus routes.
16yos/17yos don't drive (or unlikely to have passed their tests).
Parents can often cobble something together for a couple of weeks, but an extended period of time is harder to support.

My DD should just escape her course turning into a T level (unless the college jumps early). I originally looked when T levels were announced and we were OK, but DD is now doing a L2 year first, and dependent on results next week there is a possibility college may suggest starting at L1...