Gav scraps level 3 BTECs in an act of educational vandalism

[noblegiraffe]

Everyone is talking about a piffling amount of funding for Latin, which was the plan, as Gav has just made the extraordinary decision to defund and then scrap level 3 BTECs by 2023.

44 per cent of white working-class students who enter university have studied at least one BTEC and 37 per cent of black students enter with only BTEC qualifications so disadvantaged kids will be particularly affected by this decision.

The rationale is that the government's flagship T-level programme isn't going very well due to schools and colleges preferring well-known and tested qualifications, so the solution is to get rid of them and force kids onto the new courses.

www.tes.com/news/lord-baker-scrapping-btecs-act-vandalism

@noblegiraffe

I hadn't thought about adult learners. This from 2019:

www.tes.com/news/why-btecs-should-not-be-replaced-t-levels

"The size of the qualification also means that many of our students won’t be able to combine study with part-time work – for some of them, that is the only way they can continue in any form of learning.

It is easy to forget that many of the learners at FE colleges are adults, with financial obligations and children to provide for. Adult learners are dedicated and ambitious – that is why they have gone back to college to upskill – but there is no realistic possibility that working mums and dads will be able to do a minimum of 45 days unpaid work to secure a qualification."

This is exactly what would have happened to me. I did day release but I couldn't have expected my employer to let me do 9 weeks unpaid work somewhere else and even if they did I couldn''t have expected them to pay me. Not sure who would have fed my kids.

So denying people a useful qualification which gets them work and/or university. So much for levelling up.

They don’t have the work placements for the students, they’re offered in tiny numbers and the entry requirements are so stringent that axing BTECs essentially means there are going to end up no options for students who struggle at GCSE. This should be a national scandal.

Absolutely - I don't really care what the name is of the qualifications my DC take, but in need them to be able to take something which will mean they can go to university without the pressure of final exams.

@TeenMinusTests

Oh, and I did Latin GCSE and personally think it was a great waste of time. We learned the translation for the set books off by heart "Turnus was amazed, confused by the shifting picture of events, he stood there staring and speechless". I'm not saying offering it is a bad thing, but it is hardly the priority right now, is it?

They'd be much better off:

• sorting MFL teaching in primary
• working out what is happening to GCSEs next year
• catch up tuition for the kids who missed out in the last 18 months
• or just funding CAMHS properly so teachers can teach not act as emergency social workers / mental health supporters.

@TeenMinusTests I wish you were education secretary, your list is absolutely what the DfE should be focusing on!

Oh ffs. This sounds disastrous.

I’ve nothing against the funding of Latin (particularly since I realised that to do Classics at many/most unis you have to have a Latin or Ancient Greek A Level!). But BTECs serve a much broader population surely?

Bloody outrageous!! I did not know this OP thanks for highlighting it. Some students just do not do well with A levels. My nephew finished Y12 with poor grades and restarted doing BTECs, did really well and
got onto a great uni course. Trust Gavin to make another mess.

@LynetteScavo

They don’t have the work placements for the students, they’re offered in tiny numbers and the entry requirements are so stringent that axing BTECs essentially means there are going to end up no options for students who struggle at GCSE. This should be a national scandal.

Absolutely - I don't really care what the name is of the qualifications my DC take, but in need them to be able to take something which will mean they can go to university without the pressure of final exams.

I fundamentally disagree with this. I don't think that students who struggle with the pressure of final exams are well suited to university. In my experience, those with Btecs have faired poorly in comparison to those with academic A levels. I think we need a vocational qualification that does not pretend to be something it isn't. The alternatives to academic routes need development to ensure they offer viable career paths without the need for all students to go to university. I have seen too many Btec students struggle with higher education; their poor experiences in an academic environment impacting on their future lives. Non academic students should be encouraged into more apprenticeship type schemes, learning through doing rather than learning through academic study. Not everyone needs a degree.

Been a while since I taught vocational (having previously done pretty much nothing but) and I am aghast to see this, and the list of quals for the chop which is basically the most popular and open ones. Getting rid of BTEC at level 3 and then by extension likely level 2 is an absolutely mammoth change in the system and I can't believe more isn't being made of it in the mainstream!

Placemarking really to keep up to date but if I were in my old job I would have my head in my hands, never mind if I'd moved into FE as was plan B. Poor sods.

Gav hails from Scarborough, he ought to go back and see what use Latin would be for getting a job there. Answer: Sweet FA.

This smacks of Gove.

Put some actual money into MFL from primary age so children get a chance to have enough lessons to become competent in another language that they could use.

44 per cent of white working-class students who enter university have studied at least one BTEC

Another Gav disgrace. Considering these white working class students are the ones who are underperforming year on year, let’s make it even worse for them . I hate the man. I really do. More than hate.

I filled in the original consultation.

I gather that following intervention from drama schools the specialist performing arts BTEC/UAL etc are safe as they provide a recognised alternative route to high quality higher education (the governments words, not mine) but from reading the load of bollocks the consultation outcome contains about btec candidates not having such good outcomes just goes to show what an elitist lot the govt are. My idea of a good outcome is probably widely different.

My ds wants to go to Salford University. I'm guessing it's not elite enough for many but they have cracking outcomes in terms of graduates getting work as they have lots of links to industry. The kids entering universities like these with btecs are having their choice taken away from them.

I fundamentally disagree with this. I don't think that students who struggle with the pressure of final exams are well suited to university. In my experience, those with Btecs have faired poorly in comparison to those with academic A levels. I think we need a vocational qualification that does not pretend to be something it isn't. The alternatives to academic routes need development to ensure they offer viable career paths without the need for all students to go to university. I have seen too many Btec students struggle with higher education; their poor experiences in an academic environment impacting on their future lives. Non academic students should be encouraged into more apprenticeship type schemes, learning through doing rather than learning through academic study. Not everyone needs a degree.

I disagree. The style of learning in a Btec is far more comparable with the style of learning you get at many universities. Plus you get kids like my son. He is autistic and part of his conditin makes him single focused. He would pass an A level in his specialist interest subject but not any others. He's flying on his Btec and all indications are that he will do well at university.

My son did a Level 3 BTEC Extended Diploma in computing whch got him into university. He struggled with exams but the structured BTEC with regular assessment really worked for him. Got a 2:1 at Uni in Games Design & Programming - also a non-final exam course. He's currently studying for a Masters having lost his job in the first lockdown.

I don't think that he'd have got to University if he'd been forced to do A Levels.

@Planttrees - maybe you have wider experience, I only know about my own DC.

DC one got all As & Bs at GCSE despite doing no work, dropped out out A levels, took a BTEC then went on to university. He didn't need the pressure of A levels, it was too harmful to his mental health. He'll probably not use his degree but i don't think what he learned will be wasted.

DS2 has just completed a BTEC he has no interest in going to university at the moment, but I'm very happy he has the qualifications to apply should he wish to in the future. M

If T-Levels are accepted by universities, great. It's important to keep doors open IMO. Or just don't pretend they are worth the same as Alevels.

All I've got to say is Whyyyyyy?

They are also scrapping Cambridge Technicals : which apparently aren't T levels...

I sometimes feel like Cassandra. I saw this all coming, advised a priority would be to prepare for it when I had a HOSF interview : and didn't get the job. We have done no forward planning...

@Comefromaway - that's such good news bout performing arts l, thank you for posting - I assume they will do away with the BTEC and just have the UAL.
I'd have been happy for my DC to take the UAL, but no colleges near by offer it. Im

This is the exact wording Lynette.

Sport was also included in the original consultation as an area that may be retained but I gather that Sports bodies are pushing to be included in T Levels unlike performing arts bodies.

""Some respondents were also concerned that the technical qualification offer did not
provide sufficient options for 16 to 19 year olds who do not wish to pursue A levels, in
particular in areas such as performing arts and creative arts industries. We can confirm
that we have made provision in the academic landscape for large and small qualifications
that cover these industries (see questions 11 and 12)."
Having considered consultation responses, we will give funding approval to qualifications
supporting progression to specialist HE courses in areas which are not covered by T
Levels and not well-served by A levels as alternative programmes of study to A levels,
such as those in performing and creative arts. These qualifications will need to meet strict
criteria such as having a strong practical focus and offer breadth and depth that is valued
at HE."

This would destroy my subject. We have been steadily drip fed T level training and it is a sham. There are not enough work placements by a long shot plus the entry requirements are on a par with A levels so there will be no courses for a normal Level 3 learner to go on to. BTECs work. They are a solid qualification for work or university progression. T levels in their current shape are not

I wonder if the current ministers still have memories of the time when Btecs were not as good.

I did A level Music & Theatre Studies jiust after the Btec Performing Arts was introduced and I went to university with students who had done the Btec. They really struggled at first with the written part of the course.

However that was back in 1993 and we are now in 2021. The ex Btec students my husband teaches and the course my son is doing are are a world apart. However I did have that view for years that Btec's were not as good preparation until I learnt differently.

It actually also threatens a number of A Level subjects that are often done alongside BTecs - such as PE, media, business, sociology, probably not psychology as much as it has seen huge growth, drama . Some of those subjects in our school would see uptake halved if they weren't the A Level of choice for BTec students.

Working in FE (childcare and health and social care), we have pushed back against introducing the T Levels. The qualifications that are already in place and running well are good and work well for the type of students that do these sorts of courses. They also have very good outcomes and are proven to run smoothly!
The T Levels were unworkable in many respects, aimed at the wrong type of students, the content was ridiculous in some areas and had obviously only consulted a very narrow section of employers who have no idea about learning styles and types.
Having attended seminars on the T Levels with colleagues from many other colleges, our questions were left unanswered by the so called experts who had created them.
I imagine we are not the only ones to push back, and so to force them through the govt have done this.
Yet another elitist and completely unnecessary intervention.

Oh, and state schools' results will plummet ...or appear to.

It's at times like this that I thank the Lord that my son has completed his education and on an apprenticeship. He wouldn't have got it without his BTEC Engineering, he wouldn't have achieved it doing A levels. That man is destroying education single handedly and I feel desperately sorry for those whom would only succeed with the opportunity that a vocational education brings. It's completely unnecessary the bloke's an idiot.