Gav scraps level 3 BTECs in an act of educational vandalism

[noblegiraffe]

Everyone is talking about a piffling amount of funding for Latin, which was the plan, as Gav has just made the extraordinary decision to defund and then scrap level 3 BTECs by 2023.

44 per cent of white working-class students who enter university have studied at least one BTEC and 37 per cent of black students enter with only BTEC qualifications so disadvantaged kids will be particularly affected by this decision.

The rationale is that the government's flagship T-level programme isn't going very well due to schools and colleges preferring well-known and tested qualifications, so the solution is to get rid of them and force kids onto the new courses.

www.tes.com/news/lord-baker-scrapping-btecs-act-vandalism

@Elephantsparade

Im very worried about my childs prospects now. His sen school doesnt do gcses and the aim for the more able is to do btecs

Sign the petition and write to your local MP.

I will sign a petition and write to my MP but i am battle weary and presume this will have zero impact. Bit disillusioned with the politics

I've signed and shared.

Also signed petition....

@toolazytothinkofausername

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/592642

Yes there is

And a bump for the petition - why fix something that ain't broken. Williamson should be questioned properly about these plans - have a look at the petition.

Whaaaat???

My DD is meant to be registering for a BTEC Level 3 in Art and Design next week!

Does this mean it will be worth nothing when she completes it and unis won’t consider it?

This GW... I have no words....

Do I now need to get her into a sixth form - and quick?

I think unis will still accept BTec results for a while yet. If you look on the UCAS calculator they accept all sorts of qualifications.

I suspect they might be more accepting of BTecs than T-Levels.

Thankyou. I have never heard of a T level

Interesting article about T-levels here, and the unrealistic expectation of 45 days of work experience.

"If T Levels are the “gold standard” Gavin, why has the number of colleges offering the qualifications fallen and roll out slowed?

Just 50 colleges were initially chosen to roll out the qualification, which fell to 46 as four pulled out.

Quite staggeringly Scarborough sixth form, which is Williamson’s old college, pulled out of offering construction and digital pathways from 2020 because of a lack of availability of placements for the mandatory 315-hour work placements locally.

The expectation for T Level students to complete 315 hours or 45 days of work placement is aspirational at best.

It’s all well and good for Williamson to say that Rolls Royce and British Aerospace are designing programmes of assessment, but the reality is we struggle finding employers to take our Health and Social Care students for 100 hours at the moment."

feweek.co.uk/2021/08/08/the-expectation-of-45-days-work-placement-for-t-levels-is-unrealistic/

The course my DD is planning to do has half a day practical experience per 'week' (per 3 days they are there).

DD1's course had a 2 week work experience unit. It was hard to get that as employers have to provide someone to plan and oversee. She wrote to 20 places and had a reply from 1.

I can see some employers being willing (can they use apprentice scheme levy for it?) , but it also has to tie in with the course, so either everyone does it at the same time, or its done randomly in the holidays etc. You can't just have one student going off randomly and missing other lessons.

This is shucking avd shortsighted.
I still feel sorry for all those AGNVQ students.

Will someone with a BTEC level 2 be able to go onto T levels? Or will they now no longer have a route?

Levelling up? How does this help!

• shocking

Don't know what the entry requirements are for T-levels.

If T-levels were a proven success then phasing out BTECs could possibly be considered (although still a bad idea). But phasing out BTECs because T-levels are struggling is just insane.

Slightly controversially I do think BTECs need to change. I've never worked in a school that follows the procedures exactly and it's easy to scam if the teachers are that way inclined but T levels are not the solution.

I suspect that they’ve not considered the route from BTEC level 2.
I don’t see the merit in T levels and the work experience hours are onerous.

I've signed the petition. I was aware of the list of those being axed which was published in 2019, in fact I think I wrote to my MP about it at the time as my DS is taking one of them. He has SNs and did a mix of L2 BTECs and GCSEs and is now doing a mix of L3 and A levels which suits him far better than just GCSEs/A levels. We also have a family member who has just done an L2 in y12 and is now moving onto L3 in the same subject, this is such a great vocational route.

I can't see how this can possibly work. As someone said upthread, finding work placements is hard enough, finding ones in places that the student can actually get to is even harder and will further discriminate against those who find public transport difficult due to disabilities, those who live rurally, those whose parents aren't able to drive them to work.

I was involved (as an employer) in the consultation for the T level in engineering. So many of us told the government that we work.d struggle to offer placements for students, but they didn’t listen. They are now offering a £1000 incentive to employers to take a student on placement.

There is a funding issue too with the T levels, as certain ones (like engineering) will mean that a young person with a T level won’t be able to then do an advanced (level 3) apprenticeship in engineering. It’s ridiculous - I am going to have to completely re-think my advanced engineering apprenticeship, as we always included a BTEC, which gave them access to the HND and a better route to a degree.

To reply to an earlier post about BTEC students struggling on degrees...

I did a BTEC (mixed bag of GCEs due to a difficult family situation). Granted it was trickier to get onto my BA (Hons) degree (I had to get all distinctions), but I got a 2.1 whereas many a level students on my course ended up with a 2.2. I now earn £150k + in a senior role for one of the big television broadcasters.

Students like me will now not be able to get onto a degree.

There is a funding issue too with the T levels, as certain ones (like engineering) will mean that a young person with a T level won’t be able to then do an advanced (level 3) apprenticeship

Is that because they are both level 3? I guess they'd be expected to do a degree level apprenticeship?

It sounds like there are a lot of teething problems with T-levels and not much capacity. What are the students who would have done BTECs going to do?

@noblegiraffe

There is a funding issue too with the T levels, as certain ones (like engineering) will mean that a young person with a T level won’t be able to then do an advanced (level 3) apprenticeship

Is that because they are both level 3? I guess they'd be expected to do a degree level apprenticeship?

It sounds like there are a lot of teething problems with T-levels and not much capacity. What are the students who would have done BTECs going to do?

Yes, that is correct. If a level 3 T level has modules that are too similar or the same as a level 3 apprenticeship, then there is a funding issue.

When I spoke to the apprenticeship service about it, they said the apprentice would then need to go onto at least a level 4 apprenticeship. This is no good to me as the standards I need for my design engineers is at level 3.

@toolazytothinkofausername

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/592642

Yes there is

Here again is the link to the petition. We really need to escalate this and get it to 100k and I only hope the press will finally take notice.

I don't think that students who struggle with the pressure of final exams are well suited to university

Only about 12% of my son's upcoming course at the university of York is assessed by final exam, so I think that is an outdated viewpoint. Whereas my course was 100% assessed by exam - well about 91%, I had a small dissertation component. But things have really changed since then.

Thanks for highlighting this, I’ve signed. My DS has ASD and did a level 3 BTEC, then an HND as he wasn’t going to manage A levels or living away from home. I’ve got friends with DC with SN who would have no qualifications without BTECs. There’s no way some of them would pass both English and maths GCSEs. This means no level 3 qualification will be available for the many students who can’t obtain a pass at GCSE for both English and maths. It’s criminal.

@noblegiraffe

Don't know what the entry requirements are for T-levels.

If T-levels were a proven success then phasing out BTECs could possibly be considered (although still a bad idea). But phasing out BTECs because T-levels are struggling is just insane.

Entry requirements will vary massively depending on the college offering - my local one is asking for 5 passes including English and maths on most T Levels but one healthcare one you also need a 6 in science and 5 in maths