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Dulwich College a “breeding ground for sexual predators”

571 replies

rosemary201 · 22/03/2021 12:22

Another day, another school
Interestingly, the first letter from a boy

Dulwich College is today accused of being a “breeding ground for sexual predators” in an open letter organised by a former schoolboy that contains more than 100 anonymous accounts of assault, harassment and sharing intimate photos online.

The letter, written by Samuel Schulenburg, 19, a former pupil at the south London private school, said “experiences of assault, revenge pornography and slut shaming were exacerbated by ... young men who ... laughed at stories of sexual violence”.

His letter includes about 100 anonymous testimonies written by girls who went to neighbouring schools, such as James Allen’s Girls’ School (Jags). One claims there was “an established rape culture” at the school.

OP posts:
DirtyDancing · 28/03/2021 21:19

@Notenoughsleepmumof3 what you are saying there makes me think it’s happening absolutely everywhere. As you say, shitty parents, shitty kids. State schools aren’t excluded from the issue, but it’s perhaps magnified in private ed?

I am not trying to defend private schools, I am genuinely concerned and want to understand why this culture is emerging/ is about. I honestly do not remember this type of sexism, anti women attitude in my school in the 90s.

Why has it escalated in boys in recent years? I was in a state, mixed friendship group, it was mutually respectful in every way. Several of my group are gay, never any issues. I was bullied, but by girls. It was not the same issue.

I wonder if there is an element of ‘saying’ something on text that you would never say to someone’s face.. which in turn creates an actual dialogue and acceptance culture. Where on Earth do these attitudes stem from. Is it porn? Or Influencers creating constant emphasis on the way people should look (plastic surgery trends scare me)? Music?

I feel completely naive about the root cause of these issue

Oohhhbetty · 28/03/2021 21:22

I think many boys watch porn from the moment they get their phones - they almost jump from CBBC to porn. They have a completely unnatural view of sex and women’s bodies and think they need to behave towards women like they see in the ‘films’ - name calling, rough sex, power games.

Notenoughsleepmumof3 · 28/03/2021 21:25

I haven't seen him do it myself. My kids don't do drugs, they just know who he is and they steer clear. They know he's to go to guy. It's complicated. The police should be monitoring the area more...easier said than done.

DirtyDancing · 28/03/2021 21:26

@strugglinginswlondon absolutely agree with you.

If someone knows a school kid seriously dealing drugs, please for the sake of (every parent of) and every child who may take some dodgy drug next weekend, and the child dealing (who is clearly on the wrong track), speak to the police. Get him hauled up, struck out DC and off the scene.

strugglinginswlondon · 28/03/2021 21:32

@Notenoughsleepmumof3

I haven't seen him do it myself. My kids don't do drugs, they just know who he is and they steer clear. They know he's to go to guy. It's complicated. The police should be monitoring the area more...easier said than done.
You've already stated that you feel no sympathy for the kids at DC and the problems they have there, yet you personally won't forward any information you may have on particular children because it is complicated? Isn't this how we got in this storm in the first place? For the sake of children I probably know, please do something useful with the information you have.
DirtyDancing · 28/03/2021 21:36

Isn’t part of the problem the bystander mentality? Isn’t knowing a drug dealer and doing nothing about it bystander mentality? Asking for a kid who might end up on ket next weekend..

alongtimeagoin2019 · 28/03/2021 21:40

[quote DirtyDancing]@Notenoughsleepmumof3 what you are saying there makes me think it’s happening absolutely everywhere. As you say, shitty parents, shitty kids. State schools aren’t excluded from the issue, but it’s perhaps magnified in private ed?

I am not trying to defend private schools, I am genuinely concerned and want to understand why this culture is emerging/ is about. I honestly do not remember this type of sexism, anti women attitude in my school in the 90s.

Why has it escalated in boys in recent years? I was in a state, mixed friendship group, it was mutually respectful in every way. Several of my group are gay, never any issues. I was bullied, but by girls. It was not the same issue.

I wonder if there is an element of ‘saying’ something on text that you would never say to someone’s face.. which in turn creates an actual dialogue and acceptance culture. Where on Earth do these attitudes stem from. Is it porn? Or Influencers creating constant emphasis on the way people should look (plastic surgery trends scare me)? Music?

I feel completely naive about the root cause of these issue[/quote]
Someone posted this up thread- maybe why things are as they are nowadays..

And meanwhile - almost nothing will have changed. Because the schools already have pretty comprehensive PSHE curriculums - they have been talking to their kids about these issues, a lot, for years. They already plead with parents not to allow their kids to host or attend unsupervised parties. They already have counsellors and pastoral structures and mental health leads and LGBTQ groups and urge students to discuss and report. Sure, they might now do even more of what they were already doing. But the underlying problem is that they're already doing it and it isn't working.

Why? Because we live in a society that doesn't understand what it wants and believes in. We shriek about how much we hate these overprivileged rich boys - while we pornographise wealth and consumerism. We wring our hands over girls sending nudes on Snapchat - while we spend our time posting every aspect of our #perfectlives on FB, craving positive attention, and allow our kids to sign up for Tiktok and Insta accounts when they're 9. We deplore the fact that our 13 year olds feel pressured to have Brazilians - while we prop up multibillion pound beauty industries trying to whiten our teeth and eradicate our crows feet and firm up our breasts. We lambast boys for objectifying girls, while failing to stop doing the same thing ourselves, because we don't really understand where we want the line to be drawn. We abhor paedophile rings while we lech over Britney in a school uniform. I could go on and on and on.

Scapegoating schools and seeking to make them put a public sticking plaster on the issue might make certain people feel better but it will not make the problem go away.

KillingEvenings · 28/03/2021 21:46

@DirtyDancing

Isn’t part of the problem the bystander mentality? Isn’t knowing a drug dealer and doing nothing about it bystander mentality? Asking for a kid who might end up on ket next weekend..
yes. Really curious why you wouldn't take this to the police or to the school. A girl was raped on the common last year (if I remember the open letter correctly) and lots of posts on here of people saying they knew what sort of thing was happening but apparently no one did anything. Also, if your son is on group chats with misogynistic stuff coming off, he needs to speak up or come off. Otherwise he's the just another one of the enablers responsible when things escalate.
AccidentallyOnPurpose · 28/03/2021 21:49

Why? Because we live in a society that doesn't understand what it wants and believes in. We shriek about how much we hate these overprivileged rich boys - while we pornographise wealth and consumerism. We wring our hands over girls sending nudes on Snapchat - while we spend our time posting every aspect of our #perfectlives on FB, craving positive attention, and allow our kids to sign up for Tiktok and Insta accounts when they're 9. We deplore the fact that our 13 year olds feel pressured to have Brazilians - while we prop up multibillion pound beauty industries trying to whiten our teeth and eradicate our crows feet and firm up our breasts. We lambast boys for objectifying girls, while failing to stop doing the same thing ourselves, because we don't really understand where we want the line to be drawn. We abhor paedophile rings while we lech over Britney in a school uniform. I could go on and on and on.

None of that was around when I was attacked. It still happened.

Is there a problem with society? Yes. In fact there are many problems. Does that mean that a toxic school environment has no effect on the behaviour and attitude of pupils? Of course not.

A good school can possibly ameliorate the situation or at least keep it as it was. A school like DC will escalate and exacerbate the behaviour and attitudes towards girls/women and other minorities. That is why it's a school problem, at least in these cases.

DirtyDancing · 28/03/2021 21:51

@alongtimeagoin2019 “ Why? Because we live in a society that doesn't understand what it wants and believes in” I hear everything you say. I firmly believe that we need our DSs, DDs to live and breathe equality in the home. We tell our DDs the world is their oyster, they can achieve anything they want to achieve, whilst DM is the one running around taking charge of the childcare, washing, school run, family life. I over simplify. But I do agree: it’s all do as I say, not what I do.

I want to see some changes in my own home- less instant consumerism ‘Amazon’ / want it get it culture. Put my phone down, take less photos (not that I post on social media), get off social media even I feel the pressure of needing the latest fashion etc. Think a bit of self reflection is needed.

strugglinginswlondon · 28/03/2021 21:55

And I think we've just proved quite succinctly that SW London and the children who are within the enclaves of wealth all inhabit the toxic culture - whether they are state or private. The 'complicated' situation means that misdemeanours are covered, hidden up, not reported, victims shamed etc etc. I have little faith in those attacking the private sector over a forum to those in the state who are sending their kids off to Wandsworth common with bottles of vodka to the entrenched privilege of those within the state system. You all have your issues.

Notenoughsleepmumof3 · 28/03/2021 21:56

I can't report something I myself have not witnessed. Then it is hearsay. I'm just relaying what my kids have told me, in the same way my DD and her friends say to stay away from boys from certain schools. They don't hang out with that group.

strugglinginswlondon · 28/03/2021 21:56

I meant entrenched privilege of private schools!!

strugglinginswlondon · 28/03/2021 21:57

@Notenoughsleepmumof3

I can't report something I myself have not witnessed. Then it is hearsay. I'm just relaying what my kids have told me, in the same way my DD and her friends say to stay away from boys from certain schools. They don't hang out with that group.
Then I really wouldn't be putting it on public forums if it is just hearsay.
ScrollingLeaves · 28/03/2021 22:02

If everyone knows the person from the school who is dealing, why not tell the police or the school?
Isn’t not doing so all part of the same problem of brushing wrong away/protecting the perpetrator/misplaced loyalty?
Doesn’t ketamine help rapists? Wasn’t weed spoken of by girls on the testament as having made them feel they couldn’t move or react in time before being assaulted? Wasn’t too much alcohol also involved?

Ggeemerc · 28/03/2021 22:04

I don't think it's new myself. I went to parties like those mentioned as a 14 year old in the 90s as Dulwich school child. I live nowhere near there now. My 15 year old goes to the local comp, has never tasted alcohol and has only eats pizza at parties with responsible adults on the premises. Maybe I'm naive and it's all coming later. But I'm glad she's not in that environment.

strugglinginswlondon · 28/03/2021 22:07

@ScrollingLeaves

If everyone knows the person from the school who is dealing, why not tell the police or the school? Isn’t not doing so all part of the same problem of brushing wrong away/protecting the perpetrator/misplaced loyalty? Doesn’t ketamine help rapists? Wasn’t weed spoken of by girls on the testament as having made them feel they couldn’t move or react in time before being assaulted? Wasn’t too much alcohol also involved?
Agree totally. This is what annoys me so much, that we get testimonies from people saying 'I'd heard x y z was going on, and we even knew which kids it was, but as I never witnessed it myself, I never did anything about it. Now all the allegations are out, I totally knew it was going on and it's all the School's fault even though I never reported anything'.
DirtyDancing · 28/03/2021 22:11

It just requires an annoymous tip off to police (crime stoppers) and school. That is all. Then it is up to them.

ScrollingLeaves · 28/03/2021 22:16

I wonder if anyone on this thread might be interested to read this if you haven’t already?
IMO it is a wonderful book and might help parents whose children are not already caught up in a dangerous culture.

Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers By Gabor Mate

pigeonnier · 29/03/2021 07:21

The woman who set up the website has said on the BBC today that the demographic of the accounts has now widened 'very significantly' and that she would no longer characterise this as a private school issue. I suspect this may not fit with some people's narrative, however.

mybonnieliesovertheocean2 · 29/03/2021 07:51

pigeonnier of course it is not a private school issue. Those that thought it was or hide behind ‘my DC goes to state’ and therefore ok are naive at best.

365sleepstogo · 29/03/2021 07:59

DC seems to be getting the brunt of it on here and possibly in the papers compared with other similar schools (Westminster, KCS, St. Paul’s).

mybonnieliesovertheocean2 · 29/03/2021 08:06

365sleepstogo I was surprised the focus shifted from Westminster which I would class as the tier 1 private compared to DC which is tier 2. The fees alone are 10k more than DC and it is known to be an elite school with a large number going to oxbridge. I wonder if it is deliberate- Westminster was first to appear in the press and quickly focus has turned - Westminster was in the news last year too for racism but that went quiet too www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8419413/amp/Westminster-School-accused-toxic-culture-racism-250-former-pupils.html

PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 09:14

Noticeably, the frequent poster on the HE board who is a Westminster parent, has been silent on this and other similar threads. Head in the sand is often the default policy at many schools and by many parents. It’s always someone else’s problem.

The overall problem is the lack of respect some boys show to girls. It’s ludicrous to think this is solely in private schools. The Rochdale gangs were not privately educated. Or indeed similar ones elsewhere.

How many parents of boys know what porn is on their phones? How many parents truly know what is influencing their boys? The boys with access to party houses are a tiny minority. Nothing will ever change if this is seen as just a problem for a few privileged boys. It’s a wide problem and now 92% of posters on the Everyone’s Included are state schools pupils. That makes total sense but the shock horror reports will always be few paying schools. Bog standard comp in Rochdale is not of much interest, is it?

Moominmammacat · 29/03/2021 09:35

If you know who is selling drugs, tell the school. I have the benefit of hindsight here. My DC weren't involved and I left it to parents in the year group of the seller ... 20 years on, one of them is dead, drugs related, and the others are pretty wrecked, unable to work etc. i wish I had spoken up.