Single sex high schools yay or nay ?

[nameisnotimportant]

I'm looking for opinions on single sex high schools. Are they better or worse ?
Would you prefer one over the other for your child ? Even better if you went to a single sex high school, how did you find it ?

I went to girls grammar, as does DD; DS is at non selective boys school. It worked for me and does for DD - both hard working and academic but interests outside school that meant we mixed quite a lot outside school with boys. My sister went to same school as me, had little social life so went a bit mad when she went to uni and mixed with men for first time so wasn’t great for her.

I don’t think it works for DS (and indeed I had strong preference for the mixed school but DH had strong preference for boys school so let DS choose and he eventually decided on boys school). He is an extremely anxious fairly bright boy and the atmosphere of pushing and shoving, fights, swearing, bullying, not being allowed to show you care about the work is really difficult (hence he is loving lockdown). His anxiety means he has no outside school activities even in normal times so no interaction with girls other than DD and occasionally his cousins. And this is in a school that supposedly instills strong discipline. I’m not saying there’s none of that at the mixed school but it’s definitely less of an issue and I personally think that’s due largely to mix of sexes, given the two are geographically close so otherwise similar mix of pupils.

So absolutely depends on child but my view based on the schools round us (and those where I grew up) is generally girls school for girl who has sufficient mixing with boys out of school and mixed for boys unless you are very confident, sporty and mix with girls outside school.

My kids all go go-ed. Dp went to all make single sex and hated it.

Personally I like both girls and boys to experience growing up with both sexes at close quarters as that better mirrors real life.

Yay for girls
Not sure for boys. Going to say no for boys if I have to choose.

I went to two co-ed schools and there was bitchiness and clique-ness at both, so it is not a utopian way of avoiding bitchiness which some parents think.

My DD in her last year of all girls and has been much more encouraged by the teachers than I ever was.

Some people will never let go of their idea that their is something ''unnatural'' but having suffered minor sexual assaults at school that I never thought I had the right to complain about or label wrong even, I was just relieved knowing that my dd was safe between 8.30 and 15.50

Also, at my mixed sex schools, there honestly wasn't that much MIXING between the sexes. Bit of a myth. The cool girls and the cool boys always seemed to be shifting, dating, hanging out etc but the rest of us, the vast majority just hung out with the other girls/boys

So this idea that you learn how to effortlessly mix with both sexes because you had a row of 15 year old boys at the back of your english class is amusing!

Personally I like both girls and boys to experience growing up with both sexes at close quarters as that better mirrors real life.

Real life is still sexist and primarily designed for men.
There's a pertinent letter in the Sunday times today (I can't get a shared link to this page unfortunately)

@FlyingPandas

Derailing the thread slightly I know, but as a mother of three boys I find this thread really depressing (even though we are considering a boys only secondary school for our DS). Some of the comments here really bring home how many mothers of girls view boys as such a negative, disruptive, abusive presence in their daughters' lives. Makes me wonder why on earth I'm bothering to try and raise my boys to be good, kind, decent citizens. Mothers of girls will loathe and despise them on principle anyway. No wonder the vast majority of gender disappointment threads on MN are about women feeling like a failure for producing boys.

But in answer to your question, OP, surely it depends on the individual school and the individual child? Single sex will work for some and not others. I'm still not 100% convinced of the benefits for my own child if I'm honest.

They are though, I have a girl and a boy and I love them the same but I still know it to be the truth that boys in her class would affect how much attention the teacher gave her more than girls in his class would affect how much the teachers gave him.

It's not as simple as ""Mothers of girls'' think x,yz. or ''Mothers of Boys'' don't.

Most parents have both, or even if they don't, they don't divide in to camps in such a polarised way.

@ErrolTheDragon the writer of that letter states such a truth there.

I love how DD’s all girls school are supportive and caring of each other, can toss a sanitary pad to a each other if they’ve found themselves without one. A period is just what happens, or something that gets hidden or laughed at. They are encouraged to be themselves, including those who are non-binary. So different from my co-Ed experience and a friend’s DD’s co-Ed experience.

So true @ErrolTheDragon

I think the behaviour at the boys‘ school described above is poor and is a reflection of the school. Those boys would be the same in a mixed school. It’s SLT that needs to deal with it. If you chose a school with poor behaviour standards then try and move. Unfortunately boys like this are everywhere and not confined to boys only schools. The same as girls with eating disorders (and boys have them too) are not confined to girls schools.,

generally girls school for girl who has sufficient mixing with boys out of school and mixed for boys unless you are very confident, sporty and mix with girls outside school.

I agree with this and it reflects the experience of my own DC.

I'm a massive fan of single sex schools. An all girls school was the making of me, giving me permission to be the girl I wanted to be academically and aim high in life without worrying what boys thought. DH also went single sex and loved it so we were really happy to send our 2 boys single sex too. Again their school was fantastic in letting boys be who they want to be, not some macho stereotype. In sixth form there were plenty of mixed activities with a girls school, plus they did out of school stuff so they never had any issues relating to girls. Mixed schools may be 'real life' but we know that real life disadvantages women at every turn and that's not good for men either.

It's a really interesting question. I always thought a girls school would be great for DD, but she only socialised with boys all the way through primary school, so how would a single sex secondary school work for her? She had no female friends.

I was worried about sending her to a coed secondary school as, although she couldn't see it, my suspicion was that the boys would drop her at secondary school as it wouldn't be cool to hang out with a girl.

As it happened, she matured way quicker than her male friends and she was the one to drop them. For the first time in her life, she actually has female friends at school. Interestingly the friends she has aren't girly - neither is she - they are into computers and gaming. They show zero interest in boys, boy bands, makeup or preening for male attention.

She is irritated with the boys she used to be friends with. They seem babyish to her and they DO interrupt lessons (I can hear them on the zoom classes they are currently doing during lockdown).

I understand the PP who was disappointed that boys get the 'blame' but it is all down to when children actually mature - it's a fact that girls mature earlier than boys. Boys are still running around carefree while girls are dealing with periods and bras at primary school.

I saw the gap widen in maturity between DDs male friends and her when she went through puberty in Y6. I'm watching with interest to see when it closes up again.

Boys get a much longer childhood!

In yr 5 when we started thinking about secondary schools, DD was adamant she'd prefer mixed. By yr 6 she had changed her mind - for some of the reasons mentioned.

I had friends at different all-girls schools, some in co-ed schools and I went to a co-ed. I found the girls in all-girls struggled to relate to boys much, took a lot longer to make friends with boys (took until about yr10-11), tended to overthink a lot of their responses and didn't particularly develop close friends who were guys as often. They still seem less likely to have close guy friends, whereas most of the people I know who went to schools where boys and girls were both present seem to have close friends who go to both. It would be a generalisation to say that that's the case for all single sex school pupils compared to co-ed, it's just the experience I've had/seen, but it puts me off. I do think it depends on the child and the school, though.

@MagpieSong - I know you recognise your comment as a generalisation but as someone who went to an all-girls school, I have in all my adult life generally had more male friends than female so it's certainly not affected me that way.

@PresentingPercy - I do to some extent agree with what I think was probably a comment directed at me - "I think the behaviour at the boys‘ school described above is poor and is a reflection of the school. Those boys would be the same in a mixed school. It’s SLT that needs to deal with it. If you chose a school with poor behaviour standards then try and move." I agree that if the SLT did what they said such as "providing a safe environment" and providing "outstanding behaviour management" (rather than saying, as they did when I quoted these statements back at them at a meeting about DS being bullied, "we try but they learn these things at home so we can't stop them, we can only guide them"), the school would be a very different place. But I still think it would be less of an issue (or maybe just diluted?) in a mixed school. And I would love to move him (as I stated above, this school was not my choice) but his anxiety is such that he refuses to contemplate starting again at a new school and we have learnt that trying to get him to do something against his will does not work - he would probably refuse to go at all whereas we've only had that a couple of times at this school.

@AliMonkey
Hi. Yes I was responding to your comments.

I do think you are wrong. Poor SLTs are everywhere. In mixed schools too. As a governor in the past it’s very difficult to find SLT who actually follow up on policies and DO something. I’ve heard blame put on parents. Blame put on the child being bullied and blame attributed everywhere bar the people who are being paid to run the school. That was a mixed school. As there was no hope of change and I was in a minority on the GB, I quit. Self preservation I’m afraid. However it’s not a problem confined to boys’ schools. It’s everywhere if SLT let it happen.

Not RTFT

I went to one & hated it. DH went to a mixed comp. We vowed & declared that our DDs would never go to an all girls school.

They went to a mixed state grammar school. Both did really well. Both are now studying STEM subjects at uni, one at Cambridge. Absolutely no attempt by anyone to push them away from the sciences. They have lovely wide circles of friends, lads & girls.

All girls. I knew from early on that Dd would do better in single sex education and I remember watching some PE lessons in her mixed primary where the girls might just as well have not been on the pitch and the teacher did nothing.

I really also didn't want dd to come up against the competitiveness around attention from the boys that was so prevalent in my mixed school. We went to view one school and the student - girl - who was showing us round turned into a different child whenever we went to a location where there were older boys. I really didn't want dd to have to negotiate this stuff. School is hard enough without that pressure. She has a brother, male cousins and is still friendly with boys she went to primary with. Her school is very focussed of female empowerment and I really do love their ethos. It was the best choice.

I 2 girls. Both went to local mixed comprehensive school. Both did A levels in Maths, Biology and Chemistry (& eldest also did AS in physics). Never made to feel like boys subjects - more girls took maths than boys. Both now at Uni, one doing medicine the other vet med. Have friends of both sexes from when they were v small. I'd say chose the school because it's local and good rather than worry about being mixed.

I went to a girls grammar and it was good for me. No worrying about appearances or anything, we were made to feel we could do and achieve anything.

My son goes to a boys’ grammar now and it suits him really well. The banter is fab and he’s very happy there. I do wonder / worry about the longer term effects on him and how he may find it challenging at uni. He has no outside school interests that mean he meets girls. Time will tell whether it was right in the long term.

Yay! My Dds will be going to one. They are currently in an all girls primary. I also went to an all girls school and it didn’t bother me - it was just the norm.

The sole reason I’ve done this for them is so they can enjoy and concentrate on education and not have to navigate dealing with boys. Both schools celebrate important female figures from scientists, authors, artists and humanitarian efforts.

It worries me the sexual pressure school age girls are being put under and the staggering number of sexual assaults on girls with in the school setting. So for me it was a no brainer.

Yay from me too. I went to an all girls grammar and DH to a mixed comp.

DS and DD went to single sex grammars and have liked their time there. There is a coed grammar locally too but both chose single sex.

DH was particularly keen for DD to go to a single sex school as she likes science subjects. In his mixed comp A Level Physics class there were no girls at all.

DD was also particularly keen to go to the girls school as she was sick of the boys in primary school. Being 'sensible' and bright she was always paired with the more rowdy ones to be a calming influence which was unfortunately to her own detriment. It coloured her opinion of boys I think.

DS has a mixed group of friends but DD's are all female. Not being able to go out much for the past year has put paid to making new friends. My friend's DD went to the mixed grammar and also has all female friends. Depends on who you feel comfortable with.

Interestingly our local private school is co-ed, yet separates the boys and girls from Y3 until 6th form. So they are taught in different classes from age 7 to 16 to reflect the difference in learning between boys and girls, but still get to do extra curricular activities and break etc together. It seems quite effective.

That sounds like a good arrangement, stokey . Quite a lot of single sex schools are 'paired', with greater or lesser degrees of joint activities.

No, I wouldn't ever choose single sex. DD has benefited immeasurably from being in a mixed environment.