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Original poster

How maths GCSE result predicts A-level maths result (important for grade 6/7!)

128 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 14:23

I couldn’t figure out a decent title for this thread but I know that a lot of students are advised to take A-level maths without it being made clear to them the lower the GCSE grade they have, the less likely they are to get good grades at A-level.

I think maths is the A-level that relies most on achievement at GCSE as it builds directly on the most difficult GCSE content.

Pearson have (very roughly) mapped their GCSE outcomes in 2017 to A-level outcomes in 2019 in the grid attached.

You can see from the mapping that students doing A-level with a grade 6 are most likely to get Ds and Es (and actually I would suspect that a lot of grade 6 students drop out before even taking the exam), and grade 7s are looking at Cs and Ds.

Obviously someone could work really hard, hit their stride and ace their A-level, or could peak at GCSE and struggle, but I think it’s worth having this info when deciding A-level choices.

How maths GCSE result predicts A-level maths result (important for grade 6/7!)
OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 18:18

Are people who achieved 8 most likely to take A-level maths?

Students who got a 9 are the most likely to take it, but there are far fewer 9s than 8s!

Maths is currently the most popular A-level.

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 18:23

I wonder what the chart is like for Further Maths? My friend’s son got GCSE 7 (this year and 7s all year, never 8) but wants to do both A level maths & further maths

The chart for Further Maths will be heavily skewed towards the highest grades because a lot of students who take it take it as a 4th A-level so the ones less likely to get the highest grades (and the really struggling ones) drop it in Y12.

I would really worry about a kid on a 7 doing Further maths if it wasn’t a 4th subject.

OP posts:
tryingmybest13 · 27/08/2020 18:25

Thank you!

AKissAndASmile · 27/08/2020 18:31

Noble I'm sure I have had this conversation with you (under a different username) and you said we shouldn't be discouraging people from A level maths just because they may get a bad grade 🤔

frustrationcentral · 27/08/2020 18:33

I wonder if there are charts like this for other subjects?

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 27/08/2020 18:38

Nearly 20years ago, we had to be predicted an A/A* at GCSE and pass the schools aptitude test to be allowed on Maths Alevel. The aptitude was random bits of the P1 module (now Core maths?) To see how we coped at around Easter of Y11.

Interesting to see how the grades correlate between GCSE and A level.

NotDonna · 27/08/2020 18:42

@tryingmybest13They will still take the AS (though of course they do not count).
They don’t count? So if teens start off with 4 drop one but take it as an AS it doesn’t count? Is it not on the ucas form at all?
noble yes, my friends son is taking the Further Maths as a 4th. I think the idea is to take as an AS level though rather than all the way to A2. & given its a fourth can be dropped if it’s too much. My DD says there’s a lot of tears in FM!! And they got 9’s.

NotDonna · 27/08/2020 18:44

@AKissAndASmile yes, but lots of parents expect their DCs to great grades.

Decorhate · 27/08/2020 18:49

Very interesting & spot on for ds1 - 8 in 2017 GCSEs, A at A Level

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 18:49

@AKissAndASmile

Noble I'm sure I have had this conversation with you (under a different username) and you said we shouldn't be discouraging people from A level maths just because they may get a bad grade 🤔
It’s a really really tough one. I think that there is definitely an argument to be made that we need more people taking A-level maths, and it is certainly true that a C grade at A-level maths is a good qualification to have. But will it get you the offer you need at university if you are looking at maths as a third subject and you want to study at a top university? This data clarifies that issue, I think.

I don’t know when I had this conversation with you, but the lack of AS level as a safety net, the difficulty of the new A-level and seeing students on a 6/low 7 struggle for 2 years and come away with nothing because they have no opportunity to drop it once it’s clear they have made a mistake is pretty awful. The new GCSE hasn’t helped bridge the gap in the way it was hoped that it might.

I’m not saying that kids who get a 7 shouldn’t take A-level, (I do think that 6s shouldn’t) but I do think there needs to be a more nuanced conversation around it, probably looking at where they got their marks on the GCSE paper and how strong their algebra skills are AND whether they need a good grade for their next steps.

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 18:51

If they sit the AS and then drop maths, they have an AS qualification, worth 40% of an A-level.

If they sit the AS and continue with maths, the AS exam that they sat doesn’t count in any way towards their final maths grade (under the old system it counted for 50%).

Some schools are getting their kids to study 4 subjects in Y12 and then drop one without sitting the AS (as it costs money) which I think is wrong.

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tryingmybest13 · 27/08/2020 18:56

@NotDonna Depends on the uni and whether they still take AS as UCAS points. But some simply want A2 and specify grades.

TheFallenMadonna · 27/08/2020 18:56

I often say that I think children who will get lower grades at A level should do A levels if they want to continue studying the subject the enjoy. A levels don't have to be a university entrance exam either. I would like to see the full spectrum of grades being seen as worthwhile, just leading to different places in terms of progression. But that does mean we need to he able to have very honest conversations with children (and their parents...), and that is not always easy.

hoxt · 27/08/2020 19:25

ASs do count as stand alone exams. So by all means put them on your ucas form. But they not part of a modular A-level so don’t count in that sense.

NotDonna · 27/08/2020 20:15

Sorry to be so thick. And going off topic...
If a kid takes 4 A levels, let’s pretend maths, history, economics & Psychology. Then drops Psychology but does an AS in it & gets an A. The uni wants AAA & doesn’t mention points then that A grade in AS psychol is ignored. As they’ve not asked for points just grades?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 20:43

They usually ignore AS in their offer but they might lower their offer a bit if the AS was in a particularly useful subject.

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tryingmybest13 · 27/08/2020 20:47

@NotDonna Basically, if a kid drops a subject at AS levels and the uni asks for UCAS points that can include AS then that is ok - though it won't count as much as full A Level in points terms. If a kid does a full A level in a subject then the UCAS points for the AS in that subject are ignored (as @hoxt.says). But some unis are very specific and ask for, say AAA or AAB in A Level grades only and ignore dropped AS UCAS points.. I work at a uni (academic) and it is variable from uni to uni. Some are really flexible, others not so much. Hope that helps!

NotDonna · 27/08/2020 20:50

That helps lots! Thank you trying and noble

NeedingCoffee · 27/08/2020 20:53

I’m probably lacking some very basic maths, but the A level A row only adds up to about 55%. What GCSE grade did the other 44% of A level As get?

tryingmybest13 · 27/08/2020 20:59

@NeedingCoffee is it that the other 44% are ones who did not take A level maths (GCSE 4 and below)? Mind you, I have a B in O level maths from many moons ago..so..could be wrong!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/08/2020 21:00

You’re adding rows, Needing but it’s the columns that you should be adding.

It looks at the kids who got a 9 and sees what A-level grade they got, not the kids who got an A* and what GCSE grade they got.

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NotDonna · 27/08/2020 21:02

@NeedingCoffee you need to read it down for all the grades the 9’s got and across for the A*s

NotDonna · 27/08/2020 21:07

Xpost. And nobles explanation much better. It’s a very interesting chart. I’m still shocked at the difference between the 8’s & 9’s. There’s always so much noise about what the point in 9’s but they really are super bright aren’t they. I’d not realised the difference before. To me an A* (8/9) is flipping amazing & didn’t differentiate between the two.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 27/08/2020 21:16

DD is doing A-level maths despite having a CAG of 7 for GCSE. I think her school was pessimistic in their prediction. She’ll have a tutor from the very beginning (my brother has volunteered - the bridging work went well, so I think the dynamic will work). She needs maths as she wants to do engineering.

Effzeh · 27/08/2020 22:56

@noblegiraffe

You’re adding rows, Needing but it’s the columns that you should be adding.

It looks at the kids who got a 9 and sees what A-level grade they got, not the kids who got an A* and what GCSE grade they got.

@noblegiraffe This is so interesting, thank you!

Which bits of the GCSE curriculum woukd you say are particularly important for success at A level? My dd is set on maths and FM A-level - she was a bit of a late starter to maths, but got her grade 9 and has been working like a trooper through lockdown, teaching herself calculus, just because. She reckons the algebra is the most important thing for A level, does that sound right?