Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

[angell84]

I have just returned to the U.K. after a very long period abroad, and I am shocked at the school system in the U.K. I lived in another country where equal education was available to everyone.

Why do we have comprehensive, and independant and fee paying schools in the U.K? Why is better education given to those with money who can afford it? Shouldn't equal education be available to everyone?
The discrimination in education - is shocking in the U.K.

P.S independent (sorry)

Sigh what a mess. Let me try to unpick some of it.

Some one posted on here, that I contributed to a thread started by a person in the USA. Which I did.

The next poster on here, mistook the first poster, and said that I STARTED the USA thread.

Numerous posters then presumed that I was in the USA.

I am not in the USA.

By the way, please give me a second to read, before you shout at me for not replying to your points/posts.

You assume that private schools (aka Independent schools) are better than state schools, which is not always the case.
Private schools differ, as do state schools.
Some parents alos pay extra for additional private tuition (as did Tony Blair). Some parents pay extra for music (instrument) lessons; some pay extra for after school activities.

It’s funny how this argument comes up and it’s always private vs state, grammar vs comp.

Have a look at what parents of disabled children have to go through in order for their kids just to access any kind of education at all. Or the thousands of disabled children with no school place at all.

Maybe you should stop people giving their kids books, theatre and museum trips, music classes and holidays to further even up the wealth divide.

Reading back, I have been called "a fool" "bonkers", "a shit stirrer", "a fucker", and more.

How do you guys think it is okay to talk to some one like that?

Especially in the light of recent things, where we are being told to be kind to people online.

I am really genuinely surprised at the aggressive reaction. You would think I was talking about rape or murder.

We are talking about the schooling system here.

Any insults will be immediately reported.

But you still haven’t told us which country you were previously in. We only want to know so we have a better frame of reference for your original comments

And btw I haven’t called anyone a name on here

Well we aren’t equal are we? Some people have amazing brains, others are great singers or musicians, we have sports people and doctors, politicians and housewives, carers and bin men, we have new industries opening up that the education system can’t predict, such as web designers or app designers, engineers who brake the mould.

Basic eduction wherever you go won’t determine all of your future.

I mean you could argue Universities insisting on A A A grades is unfair on the BBB students, or it’s unfair X child has traveled the world or Y child has a French Au Pair so is fluent In that language.

Is it fair some children have rich uncles who pay their fees or poor children with drug abusing parents can’t feed them?

There are bigger issues than just ‘education’

Still threatening people op!

There is no such thing as a totally equal system. Parents and their attitudes play a major part even without private schooling.

If everyone goes to their local school then house prices will go up around the better ones.

And there will be better ones.

You can not compare a high school in a nice area to a deprived school where children are carers, or have drug addicted parents, alcoholism or unemployed to a school where dad earns mega bucks drives the latest car takes them abroad four times a year plus educational summer camps where mum is at home hired help look after the children.

It’s not equal or level. You’ll never make it that way.

It is indeed shocking and the gross of the population, both rich and poor, are in total denial about it.

Rich people pay for independent education to perpetuate their privilege and remain in the safety of their social circle. It is true that the top schools will, if used wisely, secure top jobs, good connections, etc.

On the other hand, many disadvanged people are resigned to receiving mediocre education. Sorry to be so crude about it, but sometimes it feels as if they treat education like they treat the royals: some people are born with more rights than me and they deserve more privilege.

The English education system is the best illustration of this mentality.

EntrlpyRising bingo - the epic merailer

So OP, now we know you were in Ireland (does anyone refer to Ireland as “abroad” ) where there are definitely private schools, what exactly is it that you think was more equal about Ireland than the U.K.?

How the hell can an equal education be achieved when society is not equal... And never will be.

We are high earners choosing to live in a deprived area. My child might go to the local state school, but I'd be able to afford a tutor if necessary. This would give him an edge, no? Or if private tuition was banned, DH and I have degrees that would cover most STEM subjects; would that be fair compared to my neighbours grandchild who lives with them because his parents are drug abusers?

Then there is the important issue of parental engagement. Talking to some of the neighbours around here, you get the feeling that education is an irritation one must endure until the kid is 16. Some of the parents are more interested in fighting the teachers on certain issues concerning their children, rather than looking inward and exploring practical solutions. So, from my own outlook, striving for equality is more complicated than just an issue regarding wealth inequalities/entry fees. I think the OP's Outlook is too idealistic.

I'd love to know what you're basing your judgement of the English system (not that you've confirmed you mean English yet) on, as you have no children. You're mid-thirties, so are you really complaining about when you were in school?

There are private schools in Ireland though the fees are considerably less than those in the UK.

Rich people pay for independent education to perpetuate their privilege and remain in the safety of their social circle. It is true that the top schools will, if used wisely, secure top jobs, good connections, etc.

I agree, however this would still be true if private education didn’t exist and the offspring went to an average comp.

Makes no difference really.

I have lived in various countries and have been educated there too. Privilege is entrenched in most education systems, it is just more subtle in certain places than here in the UK where you can pay to send your child to an independent school or tutor them to get into a grammar school. When I took my children to the grammar schools tests I was shocked by the number of 4 by 4s lined up in the streets! Not many "poor" people in sight - in fact, the poorer people where academics and junior doctors/teachers so the cultural capital of their children is huge. Yes, there were a few first generation immigrants too, but they were in the minority. Look at the free school meals percentages of grammar schools, they are very low. When I grew up in a European country which boasts equality in its education system as one of its achievements, it was very obvious that all the posh kids from the posh area where in class together (apparently furthered by local politicians). It is really, really unfair but I think you find it pretty much anywhere sadly, in some places it is just more obvious. I have said on another thread that the government should at least put good teaching online these days to level the playing field somewhat. It would be quite easy and not that expensive for them to do this for all GCSE and A level subjects.

Moreover, the whole "work experience" requirement later on for good jobs is massively prejudicial towards poorer children. If "Daddy" or "Mummy" are connected, they can get you work experience in pretty much any sector. I really wish employers would drop this requirement, it is so artificial. Unless of course the intention of capitalist companies is to weed out the less privileged kids. Again, if you think about it, a well connected child who was born privileged will bring some clients/connections with him too.

I think folks think of rich people and Eton collage when they think of private school. My DD has just started at private school, like us, most families seem pretty normal. Just normal families trying to do the best for their kids.

Why shouldn't you be able to pay for a different education if that's what you want for your kids? Some people will be wealthy but equally some people make huge sacrifices because they value education over holidays abroad or a new car.

I don't see how abolishing private schools would make it the state system any better - then you'd just have even more kids needing to be state and educated?

At a young age, a child will feel "different" and "leas than", for going to a school not as good as some one else

What utter bollox.
You can't seriously believe that ? That a small child has any idea what sort of a school they go to?

Answer the question regarding the country you were in.