Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

332 replies

angell84 · 16/02/2020 23:20

I have just returned to the U.K. after a very long period abroad, and I am shocked at the school system in the U.K. I lived in another country where equal education was available to everyone.

Why do we have comprehensive, and independant and fee paying schools in the U.K? Why is better education given to those with money who can afford it? Shouldn't equal education be available to everyone?
The discrimination in education - is shocking in the U.K.

OP posts:
JuanSheetIsPlenty · 17/02/2020 12:48

Another Irish shit stirrer then

Hmm

No just a shit stirrer. They come in all nationalities. Quite a lot of English ones here on MN.

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 17/02/2020 12:49

You’ll also see, if you read the OP, that OP is actually from the U.K.

Lalala205 · 17/02/2020 13:02

Who even actually goes to a book club and announces what school they attended though? Because OP expects us to believe not only did the 'bragger' announce his ex school, but so did everyone else 🙄

ForeverbyJudyBlume · 17/02/2020 13:11

As long as you refuse to tell us about the amazing country you come from OP it's very hard to buy into your point of comparison

If it's Ireland, they have plenty of private schools ...

deep501 · 17/02/2020 13:34

@Lalala205 i frequently reference what school i attended in various public forums .. as an example of being able to achieve what you dream and work for, despite having gone to a school no-one here would have heard of.

Ginfordinner · 17/02/2020 13:38

I never mention my school. It closed in 1985, and I now live over 200 miles away from where I went to school, so no-one will have heard of it anyway.

Hotitalian65 · 17/02/2020 13:43

Go to Russia Comrade, welcome to choice. Think of it this way, You still pay for a state education, you just don't use it so the money will still be used somewhere in the system

DreemOn · 17/02/2020 13:57

I want to know the country too.

impossibletoday · 17/02/2020 14:13

angell84 Fri 13-Dec-19 11:22:07
I am shocked. I am half English, half Irish. My Irish mum lived in England for a long time, gave birth to us children there with her English husband, and then moved back to Ireland.

impossibletoday · 17/02/2020 14:13

From another thread

dustibooks · 17/02/2020 14:18

I want to know the country too

I asked ages ago and it hasn't been answered...

There is not a country in the world where everything is equal. When some individuals have more money, then they will always be able to pay for more than what is available to those with less money.

That is about as simple as economics gets.

Fifthtimelucky · 17/02/2020 15:10

I don't believe that there is a right to an equal education. I believe that every child should have a right to a good education. The focus should be on ensuring that all schools are at least good.

I don't think one size fits all. Some schools suit some children more than others (even leaving aside those with SEN for whom the picture is much more complex). Yet many people have no choice over school for their children unless they move house or go private.

I'm genuinely interested in how far the OP would want to go in order to ensure that children all had an equal education. Is she only interested in schools, or what goes on outside where there is even more room for inequality.

Should private tutoring be banned? What about being taken by parents at weekends to museums, art galleries, plays, and concerts? Would children be allowed to visit National Trust properties? Would they be allowed to learn to ride a bike, to join a dance class or karate club, to learn to play an instrument outside school, to join the Scouts or Guides? Would they be allowed to join libraries or read books that haven't been provided by the school?

All these experiences are part of many children's education. Most of them are more open to those with money than those without. Even when they are free (libraries and many museums) some children won't be able to take advantage of them because it won't occur to their parents to take them. Even if it were possible to do so, would anyone want some parents prevented from offering those activities to their children simply because others couldn't, or didn't want to, provide them. I presume not!

Misandei · 17/02/2020 15:20

I know a child that used to go to school with my dc. Her DDad was a pianist and starting teaching her the piano from when she was a toddler. By the time she was in ds’s class in 7yrs,, she was already on grade 5, by yr 5 she was composing music. She was admitted to the National youth orchestra. She eventually left after yr6 for a specialist music school. She has since won young BBC composer of the yr and goodness knows what else.

She got a far superior eduction in music than all the others, this was in addition to the normal music lessons all the other kids were paying for. OP how would you make sure this doesn’t happen?

Misandei · 17/02/2020 15:27

Sorry, one of the ‘BBC Proms Inspire’ categories not young composer.

missyB1 · 17/02/2020 15:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

steppemum · 17/02/2020 15:52

That is the benefit of living abroad and coming back, it helped me see how absolutely awful it is

interesting.
I have lived in 4 different countries to the UK, granted only one of them was European, and I have found that most of them had seriously crap general public education available to all, and if you wanted a good education, you bought it.

I have not paid for education in the UK, and we live in a working class town looked down on by many, and yet my kids have had an EXCELLENT education in their local primary (half the intake is from a coucil estate) scoring top marks in SATs in year 6. I am a governor of that school, and proud of its excellent record on academic and pastoral care.
One of mine has finished GCSEs with high across-the-board grades and doing well in A levels, the other 2 are following.

I agree that we have issues, every system does, but on the whole a good education is available to all. (expect what is currently going on with SEN, but that is another story)
I am not sure which sets you move in, but no-one in the real world cares which school you went to!

I think you have a strange skewed view of education in UK.

AmelieTaylor · 17/02/2020 15:59

What we all need right now is a bit more goading

MN needs a good clean out of GF’s

angell84 · 17/02/2020 16:05

@missyB1 how dare you swear at me?

Reported.

OP posts:
angell84 · 17/02/2020 16:18

I am amazed that promoting equal rights could be described as goading. I live in this country too, and these are my views on the system. Of course I expect people to agree and disagree with me. What I am shocked by though, is why people keep going along with things, and never question them.

@steppemum it is not a set that I move in. It was a random meetup that I went to in a large city, where a man bragged about what school he went to.

OP posts:
GrannyBags · 17/02/2020 16:19

OP now you are back perhaps you can tell us which country?

XelaM · 17/02/2020 16:41

@angell84 You mentioned Germany having a problem with elitist private schools. I went to a state gymnasium school and my brother to a private school in Germany, so I know the German education system fairly well (or at least how it was when I left school nearly 20 years ago). My daughter is now going through the horrendous 11+ process in England, so I can compare the two education systems.

In my time, Germany had an absolutely superb state school education system. Depending on your grades in primary school (no horrible 11+ testing) you were allocated either a place at your local gymnasium school (for those with high grades), your local "real school" (it was actually called that - for those with slightly lower marks in primary) or "main school" (again - the literal translation - for those with the lowest grades). There were also separate specialist state schools for children with SEN. Depending on your performance at secondary school you had a chance to move up or down between schools if you wished (very rare to be moved down).

I can't remember any pressure or stress at primary about school allocations. You just went to your local secondary school. Although some gymnasia were older and considered to be slightly more prestigious- there really was no tangible difference between them. I actually first went to the oldest and most renowned gymnasium in our city (only because it was the local school) but was much happier when we moved areas and I joined a less famous local gymnasium.

Gymnasiums attracted the best teachers and standard of education received was very high. There were no behaviour issues or disruption to lessons because gymnasiums attracted the more academically able kids.

It was a great system and it was extremely rare (almost unheard of) to send your child to private school in Germany. My parents did it with my brother only because he really struggled at primary school and they were worried he wouldn't be able to cope in a normal school. Great decision, as he is now doing his Phd at Harvard. However, as I say, it was something almost unheard of unless you were an international student wanting to be taught in English.

Unfortunately nowadays the school education system has become a lot more problematic - largely due to people like the OP screaming that everyone should be equal and all should go to comprehensive schools (like in England). Well, now the kids who want to learn are in classes with those who throw chairs or don't speak a word of German. This in turn has forced parents to turn to private schools.

angell84 · 17/02/2020 16:54

@xelaM why do you feel the need to be so aggressive. Why say I was "screaming". Just say your point.

OP posts:
angell84 · 17/02/2020 16:56

I am just reading back through the last couple of pages now, and catching up.

OP posts:
YouCanNeverHaveEnoughGIitter · 17/02/2020 16:58

OP I have also just come back from abroad, in my case, Germany.
The English system - public versus state - has not changed since I left so I am surprised this inequality is more of a surprise to you now. In fact since I left iirc aren't higher education centres/universities now trying to positively discriminate state entrants to swing the balance?

What has changed in the last decade is a cut to SEN funding so primaries and SENDCOS are trying to perform miracles on a daily basis, a cut to the number of TAs, academies and their mantras talking the talk but not necessarily walking the walk and many families under pressure/social peer pressures leading to more behavioural difficulties and disaffected pupils in some classes.

Germany had Waldorf, Jenaplan, Montessori and International schools - whether going private led to state recognised qualifications is another issue. Whilst they do not operate one size fits all, their tiered system of Mittel, Real and Gymnasium with many SEN lumped into Förderschulen and no possibility of home educating means that many pupils, especially with SEN or from a migration background, end up discriminated against. The grass is not greener ime.