Doing 4 a levels

[Lunchonawagon]

Dd currently doing 4 a levels- history, maths, biology and chemistry which she started with the premise of doing maths to AS and then sticking with the others for A2. However, she’s now saying that she really loves all her subjects and wants to opt out of the maths AS exam to do the full a level (have to let the school know), saying that she doesn’t want to stop doing maths and also that she’s much more likely to get a place on her chosen degree (medicine) with maths. My concern though is that she will have much more work than her peers, who’ll be sitting the same exams having had more time to prepare, with less free periods (5 hours a week less) to study in. Am I underestimating her or am I right to be concerned about her mental health and grades next year?

Don't need maths to do medicine. Only Cambridge I think like it. No one else cares what the 3rd A level is. Some don't need biology and a few don't need chemistry. But have more options if have both. Get 3 good grade. Applying to medicine is a hurdle race - UCAT/BMAT and interviews take time.

As proof DDs friends have Biology, chemistry and a 3rd including drama, history, art, PE, psychology & yes maths. But most of them got several offers and all doing well in their 2nd year.

If here is a risk of dropping grades by doing four then only do three.
If the risk is feeling bored and insufficient challenge, then consider four.
My eldest daughter did six from choice. It wasn’t necessary but gave her a degree of reassurance re medicine as she’d already got two As in the bag as she’s went into A2s (no A*s then). She loved learning.

Our son was dragged to three As and didn’t enjoy academic study but knew it was a means to an end, He would have struggled to get 4As because he preferred other things to studying and didn’t want to go to university.

Did your DD do her A levels befre the current linear A levels CherryPavlova? I don't see how 6 A levels could be fitted into the curriculum, even at the most academic school.

Dentist not doctor, but requirements are very similar. Pack the history in now, Chemistry & Biology are a must plus something sensible eg Maths or Physics.
There are many other hoops to jump as well as the 3 aforementioned A levels.

Following with interest. My DS is very keen to do four, because he is passionate about all four subjects and can't decide between them - maths, history, economics and politics. He spends a lot of free time reading up on politics and history anyway.

The 6th form teachers we've spoken to have completely different views on whether he should at least start with four.

My DD took 5 subjects in year 12 and dropped to 4 in year 13. She went to Cambridge but tells everyone younger to only take 3 and get good grades. The workload was horrific.

I did 4 A levels and I sat them this year. So all new spec. Workload wasnt that much but if the point is to get in good unis then UKCAT and BMAT are much much more important than a 4th a level, even if it is maths. I strongly suggest starting to revise for them now. They are hard.

I did maths, further maths, physics and chemistry and got AAA*A respectively, if you're wondering.

usernom123123 what do you mean by something sensible? Surely just because history is essay based and not scientific it isn’t a ‘soft’ subject as dd is finding it much more mentally stretching and interesting than maths. There’s no way she’ll consider ‘packing it in’ as she’s developed a real love for it (although she’s certain she doesn’t want to continue it further and medicine is what she wants) and maybe it’s just my love for the humanities being displayed but I hate the implication that learning history can be any less valuable than narrowing her education down to another science and no humanities or creativity.

Doing 3 or 4 doesn’t really make any difference to to UKCAT or BMAT as she’s looking to take them in the summer/ very early in the year. It’s more the final grades and her stress at the end of year 13 that is the issue

One of my students was excluded from applying to a particular uni because they sat UKCAT/BMAT in an early session and the uni only accepted a later session (sorry, really can’t remember the details) so double check uni requirements before booking.

Think it's Oxford that don't accept the first sorting of BMAT. I know it sounds crazy that the entrance exams can have an effect but they do add to the stress of year 12/start of year 14. Mine took UKCAT in July so was out the way and didn't bother with BMAT. Still took up time away from A levels. And time out for interviews also adds to the stress of catching up on work missed.

All I'd say is you don't need 4, you need 3 good ones for medicine. And time to volunteer, get some work experience and maybe a job (they like jobs). Oh and have a life. If you can manage 4 and live the subjects then that's fine. Just don't let it compromise those grades. And you don't need maths, there is no bias towards maths and loads of medical students don't have maths.

Year 13. Sorry on a train and it's bouncy

noblegiraffe Oxford only accepts the later sitting for BMAT. And mumsneedwine is correct about maths.

OP by sensible, I mean A-levels that your daughter will use (& need) everyday during her undergraduate course -Medicine and beyond. She will definitely need Chemistry, Biology, and Maths or Physics. History is obviously a "sensible" subject but is completely irrelevant to a career in Medicine. But her choice, we can only advise.

This year was the first year all A levels were linear so most people posting, including me, don't have a full picture. I think it depends on both the DC and the mix.

My DS 2 (Y12)is doing 4. Maths, Further Maths, Music and Physics. Hopefully this will be ok, lots of crossover and he is well ahead with part of the Music a level.

Both my older DC did 4. Eldest did 5 AS and 4 A levels, getting 3xA* and a B, but he had a mix of Maths, Further Maths and Physics too. DD did 5 AS and 3 A levels as she did Maths plus essay based subjects and found the combot much harder, plus finds exams harder. Maths was her only non linear subject.

Both my DCs - at different schools - started on 4, because that is the norm for their schools. Both expect the majority to drop to 3 at the end of Y12 (one does ASs, one doesn't and just has internal exams).

Both schools have really good results in the 'remaining 3', including for medics / vets / Oxbridge entrants with further exams to take as part of university entrance - but interestingly, both say that there is little correlation between the 3 the pupils SAY initially they will take to the end of Y13 and those they actually take, which is their primary reason for maintaining the '4 A-level' start.

So 4 A-levels at the start of Y12 a) isn't excessive for perfectly 'normal students at good comps that also offer EPQ and b) can offer flexibility for those whose aspirations and subject preferences change during 6th form. In both schools, it gives an average of 1 free period per day as a study period (9 lessons per fortnight in each subject, plus 2-3 'non A level' sessions plus 1 lesson per week of PE = 40-41 hours of contact, out of 50 hours available in Y12)

My dd took A levels this year so all new linear A levels.

Norm at her school is to start 4 A levels at beginning of year 12 and then drop one at the end of the year, taking three subjects forward into year 13. The only people taking four subjects are those taking double maths (as deemed by the school to be easier to handle than completely distinct A levels) or a few who took eg art or music as their fourth as it was a passion linked to their hobbies outside school.

My dd was a medical applicant and took maths, chem, bio and an essay subject in year 12 similar to your dd. She was predicted 4 A stars at the end of year 12 and much preferred the essay subject to maths but felt that keeping her eye in with maths was more useful for the UKCAT, the BMAT and medicine going forward so dropped the essay subject, although she thinks that an extra year of writing essays helped with the BMAT essay section and the medical interviews. She definitely missed it for a couple of weeks but the work in year 13 definitely stepped up in difficulty and time required so she was very glad that she didn’t keep going with 4 subjects. Also gave her far more time to prep for entrance tests, interviews, continue with volunteering etc. No medical schools wanted four A levels and she felt that she was not at a disadvantage at all.

I also have a DD at a school where the policy is they can either do IB, or they do 4 A-levels and drop one at the end of the first year. To be honest, I think they need to rethink the point of doing a whole year of an A-level course, only to drop it and not even get an AS qualification. What is the point of that really? I take the argument about it being easier to narrow down to 4 subjects rather than 3 following GCSE, but ultimately, you have to make the cut somewhere whether it’s 3 or 4 or 5 - and you might as well do the IB for a broader range of subjects.

My DS has just started 6th form and is doing 3 A-levels because they won’t really allow you to do 4 unless one is Further Maths. This means he can use the time that would have been timetabled for the fourth A-level to do the EPQ which is apparently very valued by unis because it demonstrates independent research skills and personal interest. They have what is called a “carousel of elective courses” which are very wide-ranging and can complement your A-level choices (or be something totally different). For instance, DS is taking Economics, Spanish and Geography A-levels, but is doing a Psychology elective and another one in International Relations / Development which is taking him on a project to Ghana. He is also going to India via another elective, as well as spending three days in Calais helping in the warehouses. All these “electives” help them have a much broader and more interesting “CV”, when it comes to uni. There are about 40 options. I hope my DD’s school will be doing something more along these lines when the time comes as it’s so much more relevant and useful than half an A-level, in my opinion anyway.

Dd did 4. If they are hardworking it's doable and allows them to hedge their bets. Only worth considering though if they are a top Level student

Also, there have been some cases where a student may have just missed getting say, A,AA, but got A*,A,A - however, having a relevant and excellent EPQ has swung it for them. Half an A-level with no grade would not have made any difference.

I think it depends entirely on the individual student. DS took 4 A levels in his stride and got good grades in all of them. I entirely agree that it is better to get three top grades than four middling ones but if you can get four top grades, why not?
In DS case, maths did not really fit with his other choices or his university aspirations but he has always loved maths and has a knack for it. He saw it as a door opener for a number of potential career paths.
His university offers were all based on three grades.

I think it used to be the norm for more able students to do 4, but this has changed in recent years. For instance, most of DS’ friends (well there’s about ten of them I know of), all got ten grade “9s”, now aiming for Medical School, Harvard, Oxbridge etc, but the school is quite adamant they are better doing 3 A-levels and building up a broader CV.

Really, really able students at DC's schools start with 5 - usually including Further Maths, but in the base of DS's friend going to Oxford for PPE, just 5 full A-levels - and drop down to 4. Some start with and finish with 4. Most start with 4, end with 3. Both schools offer EPQ - one as an option, 1 compulsory.

The drop down to 3 to start for many schools may be about budget as much as 'what is best' - 3 is cheaper to staff, and sixth formers now attract less, rather than more, money per head than an 11-16 year old.

What kind of punishment centre school makes students do 5 A level subjects? How do they fit all of those subjects into the curriculum? When DD was doing 4 in year 12 she hardly had any free periods, and was just about on her knees by Christmas.

I think you are right about budget cantkeep