Shocked at university entry requirements

[BeardedMum]

So DD is applying for university next year and has started to look at which open days to attend. DD has good grades (I thought!) and wants to do Science subjects possibly physics or engineering.

When looking at university courses it looks like a lot of them wants all A’s or A*AA. I thought those were Camebridge grades. DD is more likely to be predicted AAB or maybe ABB. Are really all the university students straight A students?

Also what happens if your predicted grades are not enough to get an offer from your chosen university, but you manage to pull yourself up. Let’s say you are predicted ABB and manage to achieve AAA.

I am so confused. If it helps she got all 8s and 9s for GCSEs.

Assuming lower sixth now, keep an eye out for which courses have clearing vacancies this August. Can be a useful guide to where is likely to take someone even if they miss their offer.

We're not at this stage yet but I have joined this FB group. Very knowledgeable folk regarding all things university...
www.facebook.com/groups/488235648182391/?ref=share

Slightly off topic maybe but I have worked in engineering HR for my whole career, partner also an engineer. If considering this career I would highly recommend an apprenticeship, many with big firms now put students through open university. Real experience, qualifications and no debt!

Apprenticeships have really changed now and are not just for those who can’t get into uni and give so much more with a job at the end.

I would receive applications every week from grads with no real experience unable to get a position.

Partner however completed apprenticeship, had paid his HNC and HND and was managing by age 22.

Just something to consider as another option

For sciences they publish very high requirements BUT it's a very well known fact that on results day they drop their requirements, often significantly (2-3 grades so a*aa to abb!) Some will not, oxbridge, ucl,imperial are tough, and certain flagship courses at less prestigious universities are equally tough but dd1 got into a course listed as abb on bbd not even through clearing.

I second the idea of high level apprenticeship.

For one thing you them know there are jobs available.

I would also be asking departments how they see the net zero carbon bill that has just been passed affecting the potential graduate recruiters in a few years!

it's a very well known fact that on results day they drop their requirements, often significantly (2-3 grades so aaa to abb*

Yes, but then you're into clearing. And it's dependent on course,availability of remaining places, and thr competition ie what other students are trying to get a place, who called first, and what grades they have. Some courses have no places at clearing at all for some unis.

Clearing is a painful process,let's face it, and has no guarantees.

Much better to get the predicted grades and then a conditional offer, and if you don't achieve hope you still get accepted.

1% of all students get into Oxford or Cambridge, 8% into Russell group universities. Almost 13% get AAA or better. So yes, very rough rule of thumb AAA or better for a sought-after degree at a Russell group university is needed.

BeardedMum if teaching has been an issue is your DD accessing the various online resources available to help your DD to fill in gaps or underpin study.

Now is the time for your DD to improve her independent study skills. They will put her in good stead for once she starts a degree.

DD's school had problems with science teaching (though not maths). In her school there was an awful lot of teaching to the C grade as this was seen as good enough.

Hi Gnome, yes she has done a lot of independent study but I don’t think it can replace not having a teacher for several months especially when her competition for university places seem to have tutors at least in her school. I think we are going down the tutor route next year too.

If she is looking at engineering, make sure that the degree is affiliated to the relevant professional body, eg: the Institution of Civil Engineers etc.

It's the same for Physics. If she wants to become a chartered physicist (she would need a Master's or equivalent for this) the degree would need to be accredited with the Institute of Physics.

It is not currently possible to take an apprenticeship route to become a physicist.

The entry requirements depend on the course as well as the uni - competitive courses will have higher requirements than less popular ones.AAA and above is common for the universities in the top 15. Oxbridge often request higher than this, such as AAA*AA

Which course is asking for A A A* A A ?

For any course, you can check the average attainment of students starting the course and compare this to the published "typical offer". It is a rough tool (UCAS points can include extra qualifications such as music or drama exams) but it can give you an idea of whether they will drop their grade requirements on results day.

Science courses assume a level of knowledge from the start. They may re cover topics covered at A level but that may be at pace.

My DD's view was that if she hadn't done well enough to get into either her firm or insurance choices then she would rethink the whole thing as it could indicate that she wasn't as able in her chosen subject as she thought. What she didn't want to find herself doing was edging into a course through a side door then struggling to keep up from the start. She's a bit of a pragmatist

Also be wary of Apprenticeships. They typically put grads on a BEng at their partner university. This is the slow route to being Chartered and they may not even care if employees get Chartered or not. Therefore top salaries are not achievable. MEng undergrad is best right from the start if your A levels are good enough.

Also plenty of ex Polys run excellent Engineering degrees with a year in industry. You don’t need the highest grades to access very good courses with excellent employment prospects.

Apprenticeships can be hugely competitive. Also they can be tied to the local industry which will mean choice is limited.

Engineering and Physics are so mathematical, that if you can’t achieve a top grade in them, you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

Sorry, in Maths and Physics, really.

I think.it is a reflection on the introduction of the A and more students getting A and A. Im old enough to remember Russell group unis offering BBB or even BBC even for popular courses. Now, the standard offer is AAA, which was only ever an Oxbridge or Medicine or Vet Sci in my day. Onmy one of my school friends (Cam applicant) needed that. Most students now have their aspirational offer as AAA or AAB. And, then, as now, (im now working in education) unis adjust on results day. Forever grateful to my uni offering me a place with my AAD grades when i was meant to get BBB!

BeardedMum I don't think anyone has so far said that all 8s and 9s at GCSE last summer should absolutely not translate to AAB let alone ABB next summer. Something is very wrong and I've read what you've written about the teaching issue but this is incredibly unfair on your DD. She's clearly able and should go to a very good uni. If that means a year longer in sixth form then that will probably be a year well spent - the school needs to provide answers as to why the trajectory is so poor, and then do something about it.

It depends on the uni, a friends dd was offered a*aa and got aaa and was rejected.

It depends on the uni, a friends dd was offered aaa and got aaa and was rejected.*

And depends on the results gained by the others who were offered places. It's all a competition for the places. If the Uni can fill their course with others who've gained AAA then they're going to do that. It's when not enough have gained the AAA that they'll then look to fill the places by offering to lower grade achievers (if close or interviewed well) and/or going to clearing.

@goodbyestranger, thanks it’s been a really tough year for all of them with so many different teachers they just haven’t covered what they are meant to cover. At the beginning of the year she was predicted All all A* but we thought that was inflated and wouldn’t expect her to achieve that highly. She got 9s in all sciences. Fingers crossed for them all, but I am just a bit surprised of the entry requirements as my grades were not in that league when I went to Uni and not were many of my friends I don’t think. That’s many many years ago though so obviously things have changed.

@fishonabicycle where and when did you DSD get into Bio Med with CCC?
OP as far as I can see from open days certain Unis stick to their guns and others have more flexibility. It's a minefield for the hardest courses.

It is not currently possible to take an apprenticeship route to become a physicist.

Not true. The National Physical Laboratory in Teddington have an apprenticeship scheme for starters.