Toilet doors ( not cubicle , main) on female toilets have been removed at dds school ! WTH??

[AnxiousElephant]

Dd 13 came home saying people can see into the female toilets as the doors have been removed on the entrance. Cubicles don’t have full length doors so people passing can see when someone’s using them.

AIBU to think this is unacceptable?
No explanation ! This was the beginning of the week so thought they may have been painting over half term and not finished but they are still off!

A lot of new school toilets are purposely designed like this. Behaviour in many schools is such that staff need to see what’s going on.

What is so bad about people seeing that someone is using the toilet? All they will see is a pair of feet and a school bag, they won’t know who it is or what they’re using it for. Or someone washing their hands maybe. Am I missing something? I’m really not seeing the issue.

Newest toilets at my old school were just a row of female and a row of male (back to back), the block was open to the corridor. It was to prevent vandalism and bullying, hard to shove someone's head in the basin in that scenario.

Totally normal in schools. Bathrooms tend to be where there's a lot of anti social behaviour such as smoking and bullying, so staff need to be able to intervene quickly. Visibility means it's far less likely to happen in the first place. No one can see anyone using the toilet.

Wow that’s awful. Many girls would be put off using the toilets, especially the sanitary bins if they thought passing boys could guess what they were doing.

We have toilets that are open to the corridor but they are floor to ceiling.

I’d complain about the lack of privacy.

Maybe they've had problems with fighting/bullying/vandalism, so they think the kids will be safer like that. No one should be able to see them using the loo from outside though, even just their feet. Are you sure they can be seen using the loo from the corridor?

A my old secondary in 2005, they had cubicles facing the corridor, with doors that were flimsy and not floor to ceiling. God help the person who had an upset stomach. Every passing person could hear and smell everything.

My school was like that (doors removed) over 30 years ago to reduce smoking and bullying. It never actually bothered us - what bothered us more was those were the days when the only sanitary disposal was a communal incinerator on the wall by the basins. I felt a lot more self-conscious disposing of my massive sanitary towels. I don’t ever recall boys looking in or, heaven forbid, coming in. I think anyone who had tried it would have been in a huge amount of trouble with their peer group and forever labelled as a “pervert” - worse than almost anything else the staff could have done.

I would ask though whether they have also come off the boys’ toilets (might depend on where the urinals are - in our school despite the doors being off I don’t recall seeing them, but for obvious reasons as above I also never looked to try to see if I could.

DD's school toilets are unisex with a large glass panel so anyone can see in from the other side of the corridor.

DS’s new-build secondary school has openplan toilets leading off the main corridor: boys on one side and girls on the other. They look safe and clean (I’ve spent a fair amount of time there for various meetings).

My thoughts are that if I’m a girl on my period I’d hate anyone hearing me peeling wrappers from sanitary products, especially when kids are loitering outside. If people can see in I’d hate them seeing and hearing my bodily noises and smell ! Gross lack of privacy to do your business!
It doesn’t stop bullying as more bullying is done subtly in classes and online .
I’m a nurse and feel this may deter kids from drinking fluid to reduce the need to go.
This can lead to kidney and urine infections leading to days off school.
This could lead to girls being off sick during a period to avoid feeling embarrassed being seen coming from a cubicle with sanitary products.
It’s not good!!!

DD's school toilets are unisex with a large glass panel so anyone can see in from the other side of the corridor.

Those toilets sound horrendous!

OP I think you also need to understand that lots of girls are put off using school toilets due to bullying, intimidation and vandalism that occurs in the old style toilets.

I think there is good and bad about both styles. It's not that segregated toilets are without problems or that everyone is happy to use them.

You can have open-plan wash areas and floor to ceiling cubicles if you’re worried about vandalism.

Or entirely enclosed cubicles containing a washbasin and drier.

I wonder how many adults would be happy if their work toilets opened onto a corridor.

I guess it depends how open they are.

At our old school the main door was wedged open but the toilets were round the corner so the cubicles weren't visible from the corridor but the wash basins were.

OP - I suspect that the school sees removing external doors as a way of managing behaviour / vandalism. However, it displays a real lack of respect for children and their rights to privacy and dignity. Maybe she (or you) can ask if this is now policy and whether all the toilets (including staff) have their main doors removed? (They won't have removed the doors in staff toilets )
It's worth remembering that have schools must have single sex toilets for all children after the age of 8. Sometimes schools that fail to respect the rights of children in this way are sadly at the forefront of removing the specific rights of girls to privacy, dignity and safety)
The details are in this document - last para.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

The people who think it’s not on, what would be your solution to the issue of kids deliberately pissing on the floor, in bottles and leaving them in the cubicles, IN the toilet roll holders, smearing shit in the cubicle sides. Leaving a whole turd on top of the toilet roll holder. This is on top of the “tamer” stuff like blocking the plug holes with toilet paper and leaving the taps running; blocking the toilets with whole toilet rolls.

Hmm??? How would YOU solve those problems?

CCTV outside the toilets and close monitoring.

and how would you do this close monitoring with main door on the toilets?

Curly at my school we have self-contained cubicles with washbasins, and CCTV outside the doors. There is no main door.

It’s unacceptable to remove the main door while the cubicles are exposed.

So if I wanted to solve the problem like you asked, I’d sort the cubicle doors, then install CCTV.

I work in a new high school. We have numerous sets of toilets, all of which are open to the corridor. There are always 4 cubicles and 4 sinks, with the sinks being closest to the corridor.

There are no downsides to it and it's very difficult for anyone to hide or bullies to 'get' people as it's all visible to anyone walking by.

I am an ex-nurse and I have seen no evidence of girls refusing to drink and getting urine infections, in fact it's the opposite! There are water machines near every toilet area and there's a constant flow of pupils filling up their water bottles.

I went to high school in the 80s. We didn't carry water bottles or have access to drinking water during the school day, yet there were very few urine infections among pupils.

Open plan toilets really aren't the work of the devil.

Sounds dreadful OP

I would be asking the school why they have decided to d it, what they hope to achieve and whether it was for a trial period

What a world, eh? Girls can’t have privacy in the loos because other pupils can’t be trusted to behave decently,
Wasn’t the case when I was at school.
This explosion in poor behaviour needs dealing with.

I thought DD’s school with shabby toilets and (a few years ago) blocked drains was rather off putting. Reading this thread I think she is one of the lucky ones. They have doors, good behaviour and no shenanigans like ones on this thread. I am shocked at what others say goes on.

DD is at an all girls school. The girls are supportive of each other and it has been a nurturing environment for feeling fine about periods and not embarrassed. I love the fact her class mates can pass a spare sanitary pad across a classroom when a friend has been caught without one, without ridicule. This is unlike the memories I have of co-Ed and the boys being merciless in their confiscating of these items and nicking them out of bags.