Why do people openly criticise decisions to send your kids to a private school?

[scotmum1977]

I sent my Son to a private school (Glasgow) last year for various reasons and it's working out really well. There is the cost but we just do without expensive holidays etc. I can't think of a better gift for my children than a good education. I was so surprised at how offended people get when they ask which school he attends. They think it's ok to criticise you openly and make bitchy comments here and there. Surely how you spend your own money is your own business. Anyone else have this experience?

“but most parents wc or middle are concerned with their education.
Just because some can't be bothered doesn't mean the services don't exist or are not available to those without money.
Our music, dance and sport schools/ organisations prove this.”

Do they? I would assume that their demographic is pretty similar to that of grammar schools. That is, solidly middle class.

Ideally, services would be absolutely universal, and would then pro-actively select those with aptitude for different levels of further provision - so for sport, for example, it can work reasonably well through PE lessons, school clubs, school teams, identification for county / regional trials etc (though of course supplementation through clubs is often expected).

For music, this would involve whole class lessons, selection of pupils with aptitude for individual instrument lessons and groups, signposting to local and regional ensembles and then identification of those with exceptional talent to push towards further training. Tbh, until the dismantling of the peripatetic network in a push towards whole class instrumental teaching, this model ALMOST existed locally.

However, in our non-perfect world, parental push / seeking out opportunities / facilitating extra-curricular activities DOES make a huge difference - whether this is parents driving young boys miles to attend football academies or parents paying for instrumetal lessons with a good teacher - and this does hugely disadvantage those whose parents don't or can't support the chosen route (tbh ds has suffered from me being an unsupportive football parent, and gained from me being a supportive musical parent..).

Does social education i.e.mixing with those from different backgrounds begin and end during a child's life at school? My DS went to proper prestigious boys public school (full boarding). When out of school at home we live in affluent area the vast majority are white MC, pupil premium at our local comps is under 1%, we are MC and inevitable that most of our friends are MC. So I would be the first to admit he wasn't regularly mixing socially with the disadvantaged children when he was growing up.
On leaving school and taking gap year he did two manual labouring type jobs. Low and behold he happily and very successfully mixed with those who were disadvantaged financially socially and intellectually, he had no problem with them and vice versa. Now at an RG university he never asks people what school they went too although apparently he is often asked by those from both state and the independent sector. You can put sinister motivations on those asking the question; trying to work out pecking order or some sort of guff or you can just assume it's a conversation starter in the same way as I might ask a stranger what their job is or where they live.

The old hairdresser trope. I remember the good old days when people could despise schools that offered Hair and Beauty BTecs......

Bert, IME music (especially not pure classical) is not universally mc, though dance (especially ballet) does tend to be. I think because professional musicians tend to be very badly remunerated, there are children from musical-but-very-poor backgrounds within the music scene - and also pop / jazz etc are not seen as 'exclusive' in the same way as classical music / dance can be.

The better universal music provision in-school (until quite recently) has also meant that some exceptional musicians came through from non-conventional backgrounds, while really good dancers don't get in-school ballet, for example.

romany I don’t think you do understand tbh because you keep saying the opportunities are there.

Yes. They are. We all know that. Yes some people take those opportunities up.

Why can’t you seem to fathom that there are many who don’t and that there are reasons behind that?

Whether or not it is that the parents are feckless is beside the point because it’s the children who suffer.

I think you are the only person on the thread who has referred to patients and intimated that trainee hcps who are privately educated are socially clueless @dailyshite.

happy I don’t think there are sinister motivations, I just think such people have never lived outside their bubble, and that that is a bad thing for society.

Can'tkeepaway that's what we have had locally and what the op has experienced in their area.

Bertrand
Cos colleges that offer courses in Makeup could never do academic stuff too .... could they
www.psc.ac.uk/courses/2019/mediamakeup/

Iam

Please yourself, I don't know how I don't see it when I live in one of the most deprived areas of the country, but hey ho.
It isn't the fault of the providers that certain people don't take up opportunities.
They still exist and it's unfair to pretend they don't exist for low income families.

"I don’t think there are sinister motivations, I just think such people have never lived outside their bubble, and that that is a bad thing for society."
But the point Im trying to make is that you can if you want to step outside of that bubble and we shouldn't be just not talking about the independent education bubble here.
Anyway don't most of us live in some kind of bubble all the time. Outside of work which I try to keep separate from my home life my bubble mainly consists of my middle aged comfortably off MC friends (hence the endless conversations about our elderly parents) dogs and other similar interests to me, all have grown up children . This is not because I'm a social snob far from it but these are the people that live near to me and that I have something in common with. At work I cheerfully mix with those from all back grounds and ages but this doesn't mean I want to spend my limited spare time with them. Im pretty surest people are the same and there is nothing wrong this.

Steak,

I don't, however, think that even with a decent model in place those with genuinely unsupportive parents will do as well as those with supportive parents.

Support does not have to be financial - time, organisation, knowledge, experience, passion are all factors too. We were probably amongst the better-off of the football academy parents BUT we had less time, much less knowledge and FAR less passion for making sure that DS was a success than the parents of his footballing peers. On the other hand, a small amount of musical knowledge, and enthusiasm for the path that DS has chosen, has enabled us to help him with music.

romany who’s pretending they don’t exist?
No one’s saying it’s the fault of the providers either.

happy sure, you socialise with the CEO and the cleaner as equals, do you?

The point is not all of us want the UK divided into bubbles and ghettoes, actually. Some of us would prefer equality of opportunity. Something that is erased every time someone decides to go private.

Romany,

Just as a question - do you think that your DD has benefited from the fact that your DH has knowledge of / is involved in the area in which she specialises?

Do you think that, had a child of yours had the same aptitude but there had been no knowledge or experience of that area within your family you would have been able / willing to access exactly the same opportunities for her? (Or turning the question another way, had a child of your had a similar level of aptitude but in an area no-one in your family had any knowledge of, would you have been as sure-footed in finding opportunities to take them as far as possible?)

That's obvious imo.

Most kids I know are not self motivated. Even in something pushed massively by mainstream UK culture like football one half of kids are "encouraged" along by parents to attend our local kids team, in the first few terms/ years at least. When I meet the odd self-driven kid I notice them!

Well I’ve read for the first time tonight that my area offers free instrumental instruction, presumably there was some kind of middle class, concerned parent klaxon that went off for others in the school but not for me. I would have the resources to seek this out now as I know my way around the system but I’m not presumptuous enough to assume it’s easy for all.

Sorry, pressed send too soon: I suppose my question is whether it is reasonable to expect people to take up opportunities that they do not know are there for their child, when they lack money, experience or any knowledge of that area? And if it is not reasonable, who should do that seeking out / signposting for that child?

"happy sure, you socialise with the CEO and the cleaner as equals, do you?"
"IAmAlwaysLikeThis"* perhaps you need to reread my last comment I socialise with other middle aged affluent MC friends because those are the people who live in my village and I have something in common with; mainly dog walking!
I happily work with those from all backgrounds.
I suspect most people socialise with people like themselves its human nature. Im not against equal opportunity in fact the complete opposite but outside of work I want to be with friends that I feel I have a lot in common with.

Are you aways that rude OhTheRoses?

I asked because your comments made no sense at all in the context of my post, so whilst I couldn't see any other posts referring to patients your reply didn't actually seem to link to mine.

happygardening
It has to be said that your son's school - being in the city rather than a rural campus - gave the boys more opportunity to hang out on the Buttercross with the likes of my kids

But I know that the two groups did not socialise together, even though academically they were equals and financially some of the PSC kids were their equals.
And of course some of the PSC kids were full boarding (only going home in the summer holiday).

we all choose our bubbles
just make sure we do so knowing what is outside them

Happy - you are me! Every argument you make about inclusion and equality echoes my thoughts.

“We all choose our bubbles just make we do so knowing what’s outside them”
I couldn’t agree more and as I said above my DS2 knows what’s outside of his bubble both in terms of deprivation and extreme wealth. By the way I asked my DS he doesn’t know where the “Buttercross”is. I don’t think this is a war crime plenty of my colleagues live in the town where I work I have no idea where the places they live are but this ford t stop me getting on with them on a day to day basis. Or the fact that he didn’t mix with those from PSC when at school, he also very rarely choose to mix with those from St Swithuns. He had a nice group of friends at school they are slept worked and played together and we’re loyal to each other that is what happens when your at a full boarding school it’s not a conscious or unconscious decision to avoid others. Being with your friends mainly from your house works, they eat at the same time, have the same restrictions on their lives attend lessons and extra curricular activities at the same time go to bed at the same time etc. assuming you like them and are likely to be very loyal to them why in your very limited spare time (especially in the 6th form) go out looking for more friends?

“It isn't the fault of the providers that certain people don't take up opportunities.
They still exist and it's unfair to pretend they don't exist for low income families.”

Actually, sometimes it is the fault of the providers.

“ I want to be with friends that I feel I have a lot in common with.”

I find it frankly disturbing that you feel you have more in common with people because they are the same class as you, rather than because you have the same hobbies/taste in tv or music/values etc. Yes the working classes have values, sometimes they even align with the middle classes values!

Good to know you’d discount me as a friend on account of my background though.