DS winging it in year 8 - wwyd?

[Floottoot]

DS is in year 8 as a music scholar in a selective indie.
He's pretty able - not genius or a super high flyer, but more than capable of getting good and very good marks in all subjects.
Since September, we've left him to his own devices much more, with regards to homework and revision. It's recently become obvious that he is winging it quite often - leaving homework to the last minute, barely doing any revision for tests etc. In most areas, he's getting away with it, getting good marks for homework and doing ok in most tests, but he's not doing well in things like Latin and Spanish tests.
More concerning is that he has now started to lie about his failings, even though he knows we can easily uncover his lies by going into his school online portal. For example, he had a Latin vocab test on Monday which we were aware of, so made sure he revised for it. We asked him how it went, but he replied that he'd got his days mixed up and it was actually the next day; the reality is that it WAS on Monday, he failed it and had to retake it on Tuesday. What he'd actually failed on was very conjugations, which he'd told us he didn't need to know when we'd asked him during revision - the fact that he was able to pass the test with nearly full marks the next day shows that he's just not putting the effort in initially.

We're struggling to know how to address this issue. One of the factors that seems to be at play is that he feels he gets very little free time. His.music commitments and the location of the school mean he's out of the house 11 hours a day, sometimes more. On top of academic demands, he also has to fit in practice on 2 instruments. That said, he's wasting a lot of time trying to avoid doing the things he has to do and generally managing his time poorly. We've said that life would be much easier if he got the chores out of the way before going on the PS4, but he's not buying that because, on the occasions we've made him work first he's faffed around so much that there's little or no time left for anything enjoyable afterwards.

So, what's the best way of tackling this, and is it fairly par for the course with 13 year old boys?

The first thing i would do is to write an email to his tutor and tell them what has happened. Ask for their help in staying more in the loop with exactly what he needs to do and then monitor him. Tell him that he will need to earn his independence and in the meantime you will be keeping a closer eye on things and he will have to prioritise school over his hobbies.

One of the factors that seems to be at play is that he feels he gets very little free time. His music commitments and the location of the school mean he's out of the house 11 hours a day, sometimes more.

Well, he does have a point, doesn't he? Eleven hours or more out of the house would be quite a long day for an adult in full time employment, and (teachers excepted) most adults wouldn't expect to have to do more work when they got home.

When you take out necessary things like eating, sufficient sleep (is he getting enough sleep?), showering, etc., how much time is left in the evenings to divide between homework and chilling out?

Hi Myotherprofile,
Thanks for responding. We can and do check on what he's meant to be doing, but the issue seems to be his lack of motivation to do it. We don't really want to have to go down the road of supervising every single piece of homework, because he's capable of doing the work independently and we feel he should take responsibility for getting it done - perhaps that's our mistake?
With regards to hobbies, if you mean music, it's fairly non-negotiable as a music scholar.

I guess we're just going to have to supervise him much more closely. My fear is that he won't develop his own work ethic if we're constantly dragging him through school life and hand-holding. I was rather hoping we could find a way for him to find some self-motivation, but perhaps that's unrealistic in year8?

am a mother of a Y10 boy who's also still winging it! It's quite hard to step back from helping and encouraging with homework the way we used to in primary school. But with ds I have stuck with it - which has meant he has had detentions for not doing homework and that he has flagged behind in subjects like Spanish that rely on regular rote learning.

So those are the drawbacks. the positives are that he has, by and large, organised himself to an extent. All the homework is getting done roughly on time and his end of year exam results are improving year on year. He's a bright kid and in no way could be said to be exerting himself but he does seem to be on track to do ok at 16.

So - I think if you can it is better to leave them to it in the early secondary years? The school will let you know soon enough if there's a problem? Let your ds know that you're always available to help if needed?

but it does sound like he has very long days? 11 hours out of the house every day? Is there anything that could be dropped to give him a bit more balance to his life?

If it's a massive issue then restrict the PS4 to Fridays and weekends - but never a popular move?

So he's out the house for 11 hours (for the sake of example, I'm going to say 7.30-6.30) and when he gets back, he's expected to get straight down to doing his homework and music practice (so at least another hour). Does he get any downtime at all by the time he's eaten dinner etc? Is there no time for doing homework at school?

I personally think you need to reassess his schedule with a few to making serious changes - I would hate to do that as an adult! Does he like the school and being a music scholar? If he's struggling to fit everything in in Y8, imagine how hard it's going to be as he gets closer to GCSE.

MissLingoss, I agree. He doesn't get a lot of free time, and one of the issues has been trying to get him to organise his time so that he maximises that time. For example, he had to stay at school for an hour the other day, because of the way the school bus runs. I suggested he use that time to do homework, so that he'd have an hour free when he got home, but he wasted the hour and then wasted more time arguing about doing homework when he got home - it was nearly 8pm before he even started working.
He gets a steady stream of homework, but always has at least 2 days to do it and most pieces shouldn't take more than half an hour. He doesn't find it particularly challenging - he just doesn't want to have to do it. If he just got on with it, he'd at least have some down time. As it is, he's still dealing with school stuff at 10pm most nights, which means he's not getting enough sleep either.

He sounds exhausted and demoralised.

Redsky, yes, he leaves home at just after 7am, and usually gets home at just before 6pm. There's no way round that, because of the logistics of school buses and picking up DD from a different school. He could use the hour after school to do homework 3 nights a week...but he wastes most of it.

TJs Aunt, that's exactly our thinking - that he should be allowed to get on with things. We have a DD in year 10 with SEN, who requires a lot of helicopter parenting, so it isn't always easy to supervise DS as well, and he doesn't need it to the same degree.
We spoke to his form tutor, as she is also his Spanish teacher, and she suggested things like 10 minute sessions on Linguascope, but again, he hasn't taken her advice.

I don't think it's the answer you want to hear but maybe you should 'schedule' some downtime/PS4 time into all those academic commitments and practice on 2 instruments and chores.

As a KS3 teacher in an indie school, I know how important it is to parents to give the best advantages they can. I am also familiar with how much young people are doing: challenging academics, clubs, instruments, sport and more. Plus, you are right to expect him to pitch in at home with reasonable chores. But I have also seen a few yr9 boys over the years and even the most mature really are still boys. Also, yr9 is a tricky time because growth (mental as well as physical) is not linear and throughout the year many boys go back and forth between maturity levels, finally arriving in yr10 a whole different creature - sensible, ready to work, focused.

Spending 11hrs+ at work every is not unusual for high powered adults, in fact it's standard in many careers, but it seems like a really long day for a 13yr old. Some of that is probably travel time too and that is not necessarily relaxing although it's 'wasted' time when no chores/revision/homework/music can be done - no PS4 then either.

Although he is no doubt capable of it all, it sounds like he's not enjoying some of it very much. In my experience, taking away his free time/hobbies as a punishment will not improve the situation but pile on the pressure and will make him (even more?) resentful and more desperate. Are there some places where you can ease the pressure? Can he stop an instrument and pick it up again next year? Could he have a break on (some of) the chores? Will a sporting season come to and end and not be refilled with another?

It may not seem like it but he will be very well aware how important his success is to you and what it's all costing. Although his behaviour might seem at odds with this, it is how he is letting you know that he is feeling the pressure. Those easily checked lies are a cry for help. He is not ready to take full control of his life and needs you to guide him still. How you respond to that may have a lasting impact on your relationship. Results are important but ...

Do ask for support from his tutors and teachers; they can give you some of the best advice, being familiar with yr9 boys and knowing your son personally.

oops, your boy is in yr8!

You didn't answer my question about whether DS likes the school and enjoys his musical committments.

Because these mean that he doesn't get as much free time as other children of his age. They do mean he has to start being clever about time he does has (though I found it interesting that you find time not spent on travel/school/music/homework/chores as "wasted" - I'm sure he doesn't see it that way) but he has to buy into it. If he doesn't want to buy into, maybe you should give serious consideration as to whether this is the best school for him? You can't stand over him and make him work. I'm not even sure why you want to on the basis he does, by and large, seem to be keeping up. So he didn't learn his conjugations for the test - sounds like he did learn them for the retest. Which means he knows them now - surely the point of the exercise? I'd be worried that he is lying to you - sounds like he's scared to tell you anything that might not match up with your idea of how he should be doing.

Does he want to be a Music Scholar?

If not then I would reconsider and maybe consider a closer school?

He may not be motivated enough to manage his time as efficiently as needed at the moment...

You may need to limit electronic time.

I have to supervise my Y8 son closely on homework..... And limit electronics.

Fwiw dd is 15, leaves the house at 7.45 and gets back at 9!! She does most of her prep at school and at the weekends, even though at the moment she's going in on Saturday for school and Sunday for rehearsals!

She's a drama scholar and in two plays. She's doing really well academically as well BUT she never goes on her phone or laptop and only watches TV once a week!!! Mad, but she is happy and it's half term on Saturday!!

Redsky, I think I need to address some of the assumptions you've made.
Yes, he likes his school. It was his choice to go there. He also enjoys the music side, but like most children of his age, he's not so keen on having to practise etc. Nowhere did I say time not spent of work et c was wasted - what I actually said was that the hour he had free at school was wasted because it was an hour that he could have used to allow him to have an hour doing what he wanted, ie playing Fortnite, once he was home, but didn't.

I don't want to have to stand over him, that's my point. However, any school he goes to will expect him to do the work they set, and will have consequences if he doesn't. Hes not in a unique position in that respect. And it's not my idea of how he should be doing, it's the school's, based on the ability he showed last year.

Any other school he goes to will not require him to be out of the house for 55 hours a week and then factor in practice for two instruments and homework for at least 9 subjects.

You are demanding too much from a child, to schedule his time so much like an adult's time. Where is this child's down time?

It's really difficult. Does he want to keep his position as a music scholar, or would he rather give it up?

I would speak to his form tutor/personal tutor about it and express your concerns that he's starting to fall behind. I think in some instances the worst thing you can do as a parent is to swoop in and save the day/micromanage his time, since if he doesn't learn to do it for himself now then he will only have bigger and bigger problems as he moves up the school and the more serious exam systems etc. It's probably a better strategy to have a word with the school and let them come down hard on him for missed or poorly-done homework rather than trying to supervise everything he's doing. Let him come to you and discuss things frankly if he's feeling overwhelmed - offer help if he asks for it - but refuse to let him put you in the position of being his boss. Make it clear that you're around to support and advise him, but that he's old enough to take responsibility for his own time and schoolwork now. It can be really hard to let them fail, but better now than in two or three years' time.

tarheelbaby, it's really useful to hear a teacher's perspective.
Just to clarify, we don't actually ask him to do any chores - I used the word chores to mean all the stuff DS doesn't enjoy doing, not household stuff (we make no demands on him at all in that respect). We have tried to schedule PS4 time before homework, but when it comes to the time he needs to stop playing on it, he makes a song and dance about it and drags it out. So we suggested getting all of the other stuff out of the way first and then going on it, but that hasn't worked either. He's been alternating instruments for practice purposes, so he does one on one day, and then swaps the next day, simply to give him more time, but that's not working either because he's still messing about over homework - at weekends, he has all day to do homework, but will still spend half the day trying to avoid having to do it. It's the procrastination that is the problem, and getting him to see that he could make life easier for himself, even if it's still not ideal.

I definitely think he's going through some changes, hormones etc, which is tough.

I don't understand your point, colditz. What do you mean when you say scheduling his time like an adult?

LaDame, I totally agree that micromanaging only leads to further need to micromanage. The school has a very transparent way of communicating how students are doing and flagging up any potential issues, which is how he and we can see that he needs to deal with a couple of things. I think it would be a good idea to talk to the deputy head of academics to see what he says about tackling this, as you say. Hopefully, half term will give DS some breathing space too.

Wow, I also have a Yr 8 13 yo DS and he would never manage that schedule. He would be exhausted and probably rather depressed.

It is what it is, but I do think you need to cut him some slack somewhere in his day. If he is winging it but managing then maybe that's the best you will get for now.

It sounds like he is under a huge amount of pressure tbh

Floottoot, another thought - can you say anything more about what that 11+ hour day covers? How much of it is travelling? How much is extra-curriculars? Does it include any time for prep, either formally supervised by the school or just with the kind of "dead time" you mentioned earlier with the hour waiting for the school bus where he could theoretically get some of it done?

What do his weekends and holidays look like? Some children can cope with a fairly intense weekly schedule as long as they get absolute down time at other points.

There must be a lot of year 8s who play two instruments. Not sure why it's such a big deal to some posters.

I mean that despite having a year 8 (ie 12 or 13 year old) body and brain, his time is scheduled like a high powered executive's.

He needs at least 9 hours sleep a night.

He needs leisure time - that is, time that does not have an improving purpose.

He needs time to socialise outside of a school or extracurricular class setting.

He needs all the things normal adults need, and MORE.

It doesn't seem like those needs are being met.

His procrastination is a symptom of him being overwhelmed with his schedule.

How important is it that he is a music scholar?

Dd was at a vocational school. She left the house at 7.15am and got home at 7.45pm (School was 9am-6pm plus Saturday mornings.)

But she spent no time on social media, didn;t play computer games and and was prepared to sacrifice those things in order to pursue her first love.

Ds on the other hand is also very talented in music and drama but we took him out of an independent school as he could not cope with the level of what was expected and the pressure. He does spend quite a bit of time on the Xbox etc and in fact its essential he has this downtime or he crumples.

Apart from the days when he stays behind for choir/school show rehearsals he is home by 3.40pm which gives him plenty of time for his music, shows and socialising. He is doing better academically and he is much happier.

There must be a lot of year 8s who play two instruments. Not sure why it's such a big deal to some posters.

Because it's an additional time commitment for a child that doesn't have a lot of unallocated time. If he left the house at 8 and got home at 3.30, then fitting in practice time for 2 instruments would be much easier!

Dd had to give up an instrument when she was in Year 8 as she simply diod not have time to practice when she was out of the house for 12 hours a day plus.