DS winging it in year 8 - wwyd?

[Floottoot]

DS is in year 8 as a music scholar in a selective indie.
He's pretty able - not genius or a super high flyer, but more than capable of getting good and very good marks in all subjects.
Since September, we've left him to his own devices much more, with regards to homework and revision. It's recently become obvious that he is winging it quite often - leaving homework to the last minute, barely doing any revision for tests etc. In most areas, he's getting away with it, getting good marks for homework and doing ok in most tests, but he's not doing well in things like Latin and Spanish tests.
More concerning is that he has now started to lie about his failings, even though he knows we can easily uncover his lies by going into his school online portal. For example, he had a Latin vocab test on Monday which we were aware of, so made sure he revised for it. We asked him how it went, but he replied that he'd got his days mixed up and it was actually the next day; the reality is that it WAS on Monday, he failed it and had to retake it on Tuesday. What he'd actually failed on was very conjugations, which he'd told us he didn't need to know when we'd asked him during revision - the fact that he was able to pass the test with nearly full marks the next day shows that he's just not putting the effort in initially.

We're struggling to know how to address this issue. One of the factors that seems to be at play is that he feels he gets very little free time. His.music commitments and the location of the school mean he's out of the house 11 hours a day, sometimes more. On top of academic demands, he also has to fit in practice on 2 instruments. That said, he's wasting a lot of time trying to avoid doing the things he has to do and generally managing his time poorly. We've said that life would be much easier if he got the chores out of the way before going on the PS4, but he's not buying that because, on the occasions we've made him work first he's faffed around so much that there's little or no time left for anything enjoyable afterwards.

So, what's the best way of tackling this, and is it fairly par for the course with 13 year old boys?

He leaves home at just after 7 to catch the school bus, which gets him to school for just after 8am. He has a couple of lunchtime rehearsals, and 2 after school, plus a cello lesson on one of those days. The other days, he has a spare hour after school, waiting to be picked up.
His weekends are free, as are holidays mostly. So, he does have time that could be better managed.

At his school, there are many children who play 2 or 3 instruments, plus sport etc - it's not unusual, by any means.

Don't underestimate the impact the distance from school thing has.

Dd is now 16 and is staying with a host family near her school and she can't believe how much easier life is for her.

Floottoot, you're not listening.

I have two DS's at a selective independent Year 7 and Year 9. From your description its a similar school (although mine have school sports at the weekend so not the same school).

We have had to pull back for DS1 this year. Its simply too much and he needs downtime. Mine have to be up at 6.30 leave the house by 7.30am and the school bus gets them back for about 5.15. Music lessons 1 evening, sports training 2 evenings (1 school 1 non school), school sport on a saturday and DofE volunteering on a Sunday morning have left him completely shattered this term. The homework has really ramped up to a good 2.5 hours every night plus a half termly exam schedule.

We had a long chat at the weekend about the fact that he can't do everything and one of the sports has been dropped which is a shame but he can pick it up again at another time. He just needs some time when he is doing nothing (or doing something of his choice without having to run to a schedule).

Wow user, two and a half hours homework a night. Ds is in Year 8 at a a top super selective GS and doesnt get anywhere near that! My ds often uses the time on the school bus to revise, music practice has dropped to three nights a week and he's allowed an hour a night on tech (but stretches this out!). I find that I still have to micro manage his planner as he doesn't bring things forward so might miss the deadline otherwise. He's knackered by 9pm and has to be up by 6.45. It's hard but I think try to establish a routine of little but often for practise and homework.

He leaves home at just after 7 to catch the school bus, which gets him to school for just after 8am. He has a couple of lunchtime rehearsals, and 2 after school, plus a cello lesson on one of those days. The other days, he has a spare hour after school, waiting to be picked up.
His weekends are free, as are holidays mostly. So, he does have time that could be better managed.

Yes, that is a long day out of the house but there are clearly several pockets of time that can either be used as leisure time or as time to get homework and music practice done. So, for example, it sounds as if he might have the choice between spending half an hour before school with his friends/playing games on the library computers etc or getting one instrument practised? Similarly, there are three (?) days a week when he can either have an hour's leisure time after school while waiting for his lift, accepting that homework will have to be done later in the evening, or he can choose to get it done earlier and have free time after he gets home. It doesn't actually sound as if his days are unmanageably crowded compared with the days of many other kids his age, although obviously it's a shame that he has to hang around for a lift rather than having the choice to come straight home. It sounds more as if he fritters chunks of time away without really recognising it as "free time" and then wonders resentfully why he still has homework to do later on. People, including young teenagers, work very differently and it really doesn't matter whether he's the type who does better working first and relaxing later or vice versa - what matters is he should take ownership of how he organises his own time and recognise that there are only so many hours in the day to be divided between work and leisure.

If you think he's genuinely lost all interest in the music and doesn't want to carry on then I'd have a chat and ask whether he'd prefer to drop one instrument, see what he says himself. But otherwise, I'd prioritise helping him to learn to manage his own time during the week and make sure that he gets lots and lots of really relaxed time during weekends and holidays.

I have a musical Y8 boy. This is his schedule - gets up 6.30 (by choice - he's a lark) leaves house to walk to school 8am. Extra curricular music after school on Thurs, Fri and Sat am. Faffs about on computer until dinner, then s bit of practice on the days he's not playing in the bands, bit of homework, no more than 30mins. To bed at 8.30pm and reads for as long as he want. Manages all his homework through Show my homework by himself, although I do have to nag (encourage) him about practice. Also arranges to meet up with his friends and go to the church youth club when he wants.
My son would not cope with 11 hour days with no downtime or freedom to make decisions about when he does his homework; he would be very resentful/ withdrawn. I don't say this to criticise, just to show there are different ways of doing this.

Wow user, two and a half hours homework a night.

Yes although to be fair that's partly because he has two evenings where he does sport after school and so doesn't get home until about 8pm which means that on those evenings not a lot of homework gets done. He is also a perfectionist and so probably spends longer than the school are anticipating on some pieces. Its massively increased from year 8.

This might not be practical, but maybe cut back on the chores? As an adult, if I was out of the house eleven hours a day I'd be hiring a cleaner because I'd be knackered when I got in. I completely get the ethos behind them, everyone in the family contributing etc, but if you want his main focus to be his studies at the moment then a bit of slack might be needed.

It sounds more as if he fritters chunks of time away ....

But it's important to have chunks of time to fritter away/downtime/chill out time, whatever you want to call it. Time when you don't have to be thinking about, or doing, anything in particular. Possibly this lad chooses to spend this time hanging out with his mates, but even if he spends it doing absolutely nothing, that's still a valid choice.

I think people these days have lost sight of the importance of having time to do nothing.

It's all very well saying he's got a spare hour while waiting after school but after a long school day he probably needs a bit of a break before starting homework. I know I did at that age. It sounds very stressful for him.

If a schoolday is about 6.5 hours, with perhaps an occasional hour for after school clubs ,and most kids travel time would be no longer than 2 hours in total, then his day is a lot longer than most. And then homework (probably quite a bit, as it's probably quite an academic school if they do Latin) and music practice for 2 instruments (which not everyone does) on top of that.

It such a hard time for them at that age. Sympathies to you and your ds. It's when they are needing to be more independent but it's also a learning curve for them. Pushing boundaries with you a bit but also with themselves, trying to see what they can manage. Parents and teachers, with years of personal and professional experience, know how time management can help, so they have maximum down time. Therefore I think it's natural to feel a bit frustrated that they can't pick up on that. It's a conflict for teens because they need loads of time, sometimes, to work it out through making mistakes for themselves, perhaps the same ones several times, and also they tend to have much more of a short term view. But, the way school is structured they don't have that luxury unfortunately.

From what you've said, the music scholar side doesn't seem to be the main problem (or a problem at all). Moving school, even if it's nearer, would also be disruptive. There would still be exam and work pressures. They all come thick and fast.

Sorry to not have advice, just sympathy, and probably it's a pretty normal response from your ds and from you, too.

The best thing is to feel that school will let you know, through email, privately, if things aren't going to plan. And even better, to reassure you when they are!

Good luck. (Hope wrote I've written makes sense!)

I think you just have to let him organise himself.

I have ‘a winging it’ DS who wouldn’t know effort if it tapped him on the shoulder. He’s just started at Year 10 in a similar sounding school.

He did nothing in year 7, 8, 9 and it showed in his marks. I held my nerve and let him. He would happily let me direct his homework and study time but I don’t. So he gets detentions for late homework and some of his test results are abysmal. But funnily for the subjects he likes and wants to go on to do, he does just fine.

Now he’s in year 10 and doing GCSEs he’s doing only subjects he likes and he’s good at and he’s so cheerful.

A boy who’s doing as much as your DS needs to let some things slide. If he enjoys his instruments, does Spanish or Latin matter that much? Will he be gong on to study them?

*hope what I've written

I feel so sorry for Your child, He is under so much pressure from school and home, when does he get time to just be a kid?

He sounds exhaused and I dont blame him.

His life sounds exhausting to me.
My school day was pretty similar to his and I increasingly resented it as I went through senior school (private). Largely because my mother wanted us to have a good education I still, many years later, remember the relentless drag - and just because others can apparently sail through it that doesn't mean every child will.
Trying to keep up with parental expectations probably wrecked our adult relationship and I recall my school days as sheer grim slog and little pleasure whatsoever.
What does your DS actually want? Have you asked him and listened to his responses?

I think you and your DS have to learn to prioritise, and you also need to take a step back and think about what's reasonable in terms of workload for a child of 14.

Both my kids are musicians and there have been times when music takes priority, other times when studying was more important.

Your son has extremely long days - he can't do everything and if he tries there is a risk that he will burn out. The fact that he has started lying to you suggests that you may be putting more pressure on him than he can cope with.

Poor kid.

Hardly winging it. He is burning the candle at both ends

Im totally with Raed here. Let him organise himself. When we were in school our dps didn't know every test we had. We were self motivated..or not. This week l attended my dss graduation getting a 1:1 in a top university in lreland. He seriously slacked at 13/14..maybe longer. They cannot keep this pace up for years. He suddenly decided he wanted this course, settled dow and away he went. He is now pursuing further study and has actually turned into a bit of a nerd. Stop breathing down his neck. He will be fine.

It's been really interesting to read the variety of responses, and realise that parents have wildly differing views on what's reasonable for a 13 year old ( hardly surprising!)

I'm slightly taken aback, I'll admit, by the strength of feeling from some posters that somehow this is all my doing and I don't care about my son's well being - if I didnt, I wouldn't be posting to ask for how best to make things better for him. Also, the assumption that I've never asked him how he feels, or whether he wants to carry on being a music scholar is incorrect too.
Still, your replies have given me plenty of food for thought; clearly something needs to change, so thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

As a mum of 3 teenagers who travel/led (because of my choice) to school and do sport and and play (only one) instrument, and I think that's a full in day for a year 8.

I also have a DH who is out if the house for 11 hours on an average day, and wouldn't expect him to do any extra work when he gets home.

Your DS has one hell of a schedule for a Y8. I actually don't think he's coasting, I think he's doing the best he can without totally losing the plot.

I have a daughter in yr 8 at a super selective independent school. She does no after school activities, leaves home around 7.25am ( her choice, she could leave half an hour later) and is home 4.20 ish. She is absolutely exhausted and I wouldn’t push her to do much more than her homework on week nights (she only gets about half an hour as gets lots done at weekend) Once she’s done her homework I let her do what she wants - which is usually watching mindless videos on YouTube. She’s still only 12 but I think she has more than enough to cope with, keeping up with the academics.
You need to cut your son some slack. My daughter would be going crazy on his schedule.
Hope you can work it out - totally understand you only want the best for him.

What would I do? I would know exactly what home work he has every day, and make sure he does the most important.

I'd make sure he had a really healthy breakfast and lunch sitting with you at the table. Because at that age they do need to spend time with their parent/s to offload about their day. I'd make durch he had a certain amount of down tine everyday. And I'd make sure he was in bed by 8:30 and asleep by 9pm.

And after that I'd let the teachers do the nagging.

But honestly, I'm not sure his current time table is sustainable. Something has to give. At the moment it seems to be sleep, which for a child that age is really unhealthy, physically and mentally.