DS winging it in year 8 - wwyd?

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DS is in year 8 as a music scholar in a selective indie.
He's pretty able - not genius or a super high flyer, but more than capable of getting good and very good marks in all subjects.
Since September, we've left him to his own devices much more, with regards to homework and revision. It's recently become obvious that he is winging it quite often - leaving homework to the last minute, barely doing any revision for tests etc. In most areas, he's getting away with it, getting good marks for homework and doing ok in most tests, but he's not doing well in things like Latin and Spanish tests.
More concerning is that he has now started to lie about his failings, even though he knows we can easily uncover his lies by going into his school online portal. For example, he had a Latin vocab test on Monday which we were aware of, so made sure he revised for it. We asked him how it went, but he replied that he'd got his days mixed up and it was actually the next day; the reality is that it WAS on Monday, he failed it and had to retake it on Tuesday. What he'd actually failed on was very conjugations, which he'd told us he didn't need to know when we'd asked him during revision - the fact that he was able to pass the test with nearly full marks the next day shows that he's just not putting the effort in initially.

We're struggling to know how to address this issue. One of the factors that seems to be at play is that he feels he gets very little free time. His.music commitments and the location of the school mean he's out of the house 11 hours a day, sometimes more. On top of academic demands, he also has to fit in practice on 2 instruments. That said, he's wasting a lot of time trying to avoid doing the things he has to do and generally managing his time poorly. We've said that life would be much easier if he got the chores out of the way before going on the PS4, but he's not buying that because, on the occasions we've made him work first he's faffed around so much that there's little or no time left for anything enjoyable afterwards.

So, what's the best way of tackling this, and is it fairly par for the course with 13 year old boys?

Thanks for posting those links, User, I will certainly watch and take note.
Yes, he's a good kid - he's a great kid, actually, and has loads going for him. 😀 He had a fantastic first year at school but the step up in expectations, standards wise this term ( he had the same time demands last year) has thrown him.
I actually think he lied about the retest because he'd furiously argued that he didn't need to learn the verb conjugations, but I do take your point.

Watch the parent one first (second link) and then perhaps watch the pupil one together if you feel he's mature enough for it.

I challenge you to watch the first 15 minutes or so and not have a lump in your throat.

halcyondays, as far as I'm aware, yes - the comments on his profile state that he has been given "negatives" for being 2 or more grades below challenge grades in language tests. They all state more effort required.

The suggestion of talking to the deputy head of academics was to make them aware of his struggle and hopefully come to some agreement about how to tackle it. Maybe the head of pastoral care would be a better option?

Thanks, User. The lump in throat bit won't be hard - my heart is in my mouth most days at the moment.

which meant losing break time, do another bit of downtime gone

This is what I dont think You understand, How can you compare a school break inbetween lessons to 'downtime' Its just not the same thing.

Same with the bus journey and hour waiting for the bus, none of these are 'downtime'.

You've misunderstood, Zero - I meant that, in a day already short of downtime, losing break time is another blow. It's not great to have to work straight through until lunchtime.

DD1 had a manic school and extra-curricular life. She learned to do what was necessary to get through in the shortest possible time. Some tests were dodgy, some homework was perfunctory and most of it we didn't hear about. However, there was one memorable phone call from a teacher because she's not done a homework and was lying dissembling.

She usually managed to pull it together in the time for exams. I think it stood her in good stead for uni, she doesn't do loads of drafts of essays she just gets on and writes it. She could do better, but everything is a balance. She got good grades and qualified from a top uni (where she did what was necessary to get a 2.1 and loads of extra-curricular stuff.)

So, after all that waffle I suppose I'm saying cut him some slack and keep a watchful eye. If he has to keep resitting stuff, he'll probably learn to do a bit more the first time.

I feel very sorry for your son. If, as you say, the pressures placed on him are down to the school, not you, perhaps it isn’t the right school for him. That schedule sounds gruelling.

It’s all very well saying that he chose the school but it’s our job as parents to make huge (and sometimes unpopular) decisions for our children. He can have had no idea what his life would look like when he made that choice and maybe it just doesn’t work for him in practise.

My DS is just coming to the end of his school life. He’s done well and should come out with a set of A Levels which will enable him to follow a path he chooses. He also has an amazing social life with lots of friends and varied interests which, in my opinion, is just as, if not more, important in life. He could probably have come out with even better results had he been sent to a school some distance away where he was pushed harder and forced to schedule any downtime to the nth degree. But he would have been miserable.

You’re hearing what posters are saying but I’m not convinced you’re really listening.

Your son is under huge pressure at the moment and it will only increase as he gets older if you let him continue as he is.

Sorry not had time to read every post so ignore if this has been suggested.

Think need to find a balance between micromanaging (recipe for conflict) and just giving him all the responsibility.

I work with v busy uni students so here's a suggestion:

Can take the approach of this being a problem to work on together eg give him some tools to organise his time eg a weekly planner - all 7 days 7am to 10pm with hour slots. Put in all the fixed timed stuff, school, extra curricular, mealtimes. Colour code it. Then put in the important stuff eg music practice. Then figure out how to split the remaining time between homework and chilling. And then leave it to him to chill how he wants. Review it every week eg Sunday night and then let him get on with it. No micromanaging. Try it for 3 weeks and reward him if things improve. The process will also clear up whether there's too much on....

Hope this helpful

Also I agree with idea of asking for a bit of mentoring/advice from older music scholars

He probably didn't like missing his break, so maybe it won't happen again anyway. It will be half term soon, and I suppose they'll have term exams probably in November. See how it goes with revising for them.

If there's any parents' evenings coming up you could speak to the language teachers, maybe he's not keen on languages.

At the beginning of this thread I was very supportive of OP but now I just feel really sorry for the boy. Yes he wanted to go to that school but I doubt at 10 - when going through the admission process he really had any idea how utterly gruelling it was going to be. At the moment all he can see is almost another 6 years of unrelating pressure and having the music scholarship being used as an excuse for pressure from you and school. From what has been written I've seen no evidence of him having time to spend socially with friends or to do non music related extra curricular activities. And people wonder why so many young people have fragile mental health these days. I would say let him deal with "in school" issues himself, if a poor test means a re test so be it, he will decide if her prefers to put effort in before the first test or not. If the school start to involve you then try to see if this is really the healthiest situation for your child. Just because your DD is coping you can never make the assumption that a younger child will too. Let him be a child. He only gets one shot at it.

That's a really great idea, chocsahoy. We can look at sorting out a planner over half term and see how it goes - I think it would be really helpful to DS to actually see what time he has available and how he might choose to spend it. I've previously tried something similar with DD; it was much less detailed (really just a weekly homework planner, so she could put in homework by due date and plan to do it accordingly) but the visual aspect really helped.

Our ds is year 8 too - he doesn’t have the music commitments and he’s not out for so long (7.20 til either 4.15/5 or 6 depending on the day). He’s definitely prone to winging it though - he also failed a German test this week and had to re-do it 10 times at home!

Does the school have a reward/punishment system? We’ve got an app which shows merits/behaviour points so it’s conpletely transparent. Our ds still needs external rewards so we’ve started offering trips to the trampoline park (he loves trampolining!) if he has two weeks of no behaviour points and a certain number of merits. Amazingly he achieved his first trip this week! So that’s been a way of encouraging him to actually do homework.

I’m aware that he needs to learn internal motivation but I also think he’s only 12 and doesn’t see the point at the moment. He did say to me the other day though that he does want to get good GCSEs. To be fair even his older sister has only really started working hard this year in year 10.

Also, this year ds has seen the benefit of getting homework done at school as he can then play Fortnite for longer after school! I think it probably helps that other boys do the same so he has company. I’m also wondering if it’s a way of getting help with homework too but I’m not going to ask!

Crazycrofter, we sound like we have very similar boys! Yes, the school has a similarly transparent system of positives and negatives parents and pupils can view online. DS has had 5 negatives for language tests over the last month, hence us realising what's been going on.
The point you make an foing homework at school, with the trade-off being more time for Fortnite is what I've suggested to DS too. He can also get help with anything he's finding tricky ( and maths drop in comes with the added bonus of chocolate biscuits as an incentive to get them there!)
My DD is also on year 10 and she commented this week that watching DS fuss and flap of having to do homework makes her realise that she was exactly the same in year8!

OP, I have three children a few years younger than yours. Why do you think all this pressure and busyness is “worth it”?

I’m from a very academic background myself and yet I still find it unfathomable.

You can’t schedule a year 8’s downtime like he’s some kind of business executive. He sounds like he has very little agency over his own life. A decision made at ten or eleven is very different from the reality of 11 hour days.

If it’s half term, I would be tempted to abandon all committments as if he were sick and let him loaf about in his pyjamas. Just unilaterally tell him he has a week off and that you will deal with the consequences. He’ll either be grateful, or if he’s as committed as you hope he is to music, he’ll find a way to play. Either way, it would be illuminating.

Jaffacake - The OP does not want to hear what we have to say. I fear this child and many others like him will burn out. I was thinking about this thread this afternoon. Above the OP said it is the schools setting the pressure but in an Independent school such as those the OPs children attend the parents are the customers. Therefore the parents are in a financial position to get things changed if it is not in the best interests of the young people. If parents just say "but the school expects" then the child has no one fighting their corner. Age 12/13 is a difficult enough age with puberty without a structured "workload" that many adults would struggle to sustain 7 year flat.

Respectfully, I disagree.

It's about protecting his downtime and not expecting a 12/13yo to be able to juggle it all in his head. It's not weird to think ahead if you've got two instruments, presumably orchestra and a bus commute to fit in....

The important bit is to let him have enough downtime to sit in his pants and play fortnite or whatever if he chooses

People are often less judgemental when kids have sporting talent they need to fit around school.

Assuming he does enjoy his music he just needs help to fit it in

So the school negatives result in detention/sanctions? If they do, it sounds very pressured. Surely the negative of failing a test, is failing a test. IYSWIM?

I sympathise with you. My two could procrastinate for Britain! Both winged it, but are doing very well now. DD got a first class hons degree from a British Conservatoire and DS is getting excellent marks on his degree course at a prestigious London conservatoire. Given that your son is bright and able I wouĺdn't worry too much about his lack of application. As a pp said, he will hopefully knuckle down in his GCSE and A level years.

I used to find my DC's lack of application frustrating. But, like your lovely boy, they are nice young people. I enjoyed the academic side of school and was disappointed that my two didn't. Tbh, I still occasionally think it's a shame that DS narrowly missed getting 5 As in his scottish highers for want of application, but we can't expect our children to be perfect, or have the same attitudes we have.

Maybe your DS is going through a growth spurt btw? Which can be exhausting.

But he's not free to juggle it all, is he? He's working to a timetable that he has no control over. So he might quite like some downtime before homework but he can't have it, because he's at orchestra, or waiting to be picked up. An hour of free time after school is not the same as an hour of free time at home. And he might be too wired after lessons to chill, and might want a kick about with his mates, but how can you relax knowing you have so much hanging over him, still to do? Combined with the weight of parental expectations, both musical and academic,no wonder the poor boy is finding it hard.

Yes it may just be growing pains and figuring out how to be a teenager. But he's got a working week longer than the EU Working Time Directive's maximum, with the added demands of puberty. The OP needs to at least acknowledge the bonkers workload - would they be prepared to do it?

Is it so inconceivable that DS actually enjoys music, wants to do it and finds it a form of relaxation sometimes?
I really don't understand where the idea that he is being forced to do it against his will has come from. I've been to see him perform in a school concert today and he said he was excited to do it. He's gone to an orchestra rehearsal tonight - I asked him if he wanted to give it a miss, but he said he wanted to go.
If he ever says he wants to cut down or stop completely, that will be his choice too.

rogueantimatter, no, negatives are just a way of recording an area that may need addressing. I'm guessing that if that area continues to be a concern, the school may talk to a pupil or their parents, but it's not a punishment system.
I think he 's probably going through a growth spurt, you're right - he's all arms and legs at the moment...and huge feet!

No, it is absolutely entirely understandable and believeable that he loves music, finds it relaxing, and would happily play 25 hours a day if he could get away with it But he’s still very young, and don’t underestimate the weight of expectations upon him, whether he’s concious they are affecting him or not. Especially for people who are obsessive about things, then sometimes the only way they will take a break, or admit it’s all gotten too much, is when they are forced to do so. It’s clear from his behaviour that something is bothering him, so what harm can a short, enforced, change of pace do?