Having nightmares over secondary school selection...

[Heidi243]

Question: has anyone ever refused point blank to send their child to a secondary school that there is no way in hell you'd let your child attend and basically said you'll keep them home until they get one of your preferred choices?

Ok, so having looked at the schools concerned, you seem to be overdramatising a little- GA had 955 apply for 300 places, county had 717 for 180; hardly 20 applications per place!
One in 3 applicants get into GA. The cut-off distance was 3.9 km, county's was 1.88km. obviously we don't know your address, so only you can judge likelihood of a place.

I am shocked at the quality of schools available though- I thought Guildford was a wealthy area?
On paper (seriously, I have no experience of Guildford schools, other than St. Catherine's, which I quite liked) then county looks the better school. Particularly if a child is on FSM. GA's results for FSM are shockingly poor.

Why don’t you try to get a teaching position now at Tormead or Guildford (or another independent school) and send your DD there? That seems the obvious solution. You would get a decent staff discount on fees but even without that, with fees at (I assume) £15kish a year you would easily afford it and have no childcare issues either.

Also bear in mind that if there are 955 applications for 300 places some of those applications may be lower preference so it wasn't their top choice anyway. Speak to the admissions person at the schools as they are usually very helpful.

In our area we've noticed huge pressure this year compared to last year and distances for many schools are looking much lower so do bear that in mind if your DC's year is a high birth year or they've built more family homes in your area in the last few years. However sometimes they put on a 'bulge' class to cater for extra demand and end up coming out further than expected and parents who haven't put the school down as they thought they had no chance but would have got the school as a result of the bulge class end up regretting they didn't put the school on their list so do put them in your genuine order of preference with at least one school you do like and are pretty certain to get even if it is the last on your list (unless planning to go private or home-educate).

To be blunt you're making your situation into a nightmare. There aren't 20 applications per place at all Look at the facts before spouting hyperbole.

You'd go back to work to get a state school place but not to get a private school place

And you won't consider moving....

If it was me, id put her in one of the online schools and keep applying for a place at the school of your choice

Haskell, where did I say I wasn't prepared to work? Even with a job I couldn't afford the exorbitant private school fees... I have MS and wouldn't be able to work full-time anyway... I'm just not physically able to. All my questions are just that... questions. I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

I can only go off the information you have posted: I'm at home because I'm lucky enough to choose to be

I cannot magically see that you have MS
If you had put " I'm not working, but can only manage PT hours due to illness" no-one would have turned a hair.

Also, I am somewhat surprised that a teacher does not know how school admissions works, nor how to find out the information needed to make judgements about applying.
FYI, everything is on the Surrey county council website (which is what I used) along with the DfE performance site.

If your DD is sept 2019 entry, you have some time to plan and make arrangements- good luck.

Just to be clear, like so many others, we're not made of money... I don't work because of MS and have been very fortunate in that respect as my partner is self-employed and we paid off our mortgage years ago. Moving house simply isn't that easy... the area where our favourite school is is expensive and then you get pokey properties for your money with postage stamp gardens unless you've got a spare 800k in the bank... and obviously then, if I did, I wouldn't be asking all these questions, she'd simply go to a private school and we'd happily foot the bill. Thank you for all the constructive advice guys... I'm a little more reassured now, not totally, but hey... I guess time will tell... I'm going to look at online schooling now, as I have absolutely no idea how that would work as, probably like most children, how easy is it to get them to sit and do a school day with all the dconstant distractions at home... most have trouble getting their kids to sit still long enough to do 15 minutes of homework... 🙄😉... I know I probably sound very melodramatic about the whole secondary school thing, but unfortunately, like Haskell has noticed, for such an affluent area, Guildford is severely lacking in schools... my daughter's is a very high birth year, and on the last 2 occasions of getting her her school places, extra classes were added to the years to accommodate the extra children.

How far away are you from the school you want?

I appreciate your comments Haskell, I'm not having a go at you... you just sound rather abrupt. I'm not a teacher, I was a nursery nurse and then a teaching assistant quite a long time ago now... things have changed an awful lot over the time I've not been at work and even when I did, my day consisted mainly of changing nappies so the school system didnt even factor into things... you've obviously had some solid experience of all this, I'm assuming you have more than one child, and have probably successfully navigated your way through all this... but I haven't, so all advice, yours too, just serves to better prepare me for whats ahead. 😊

MillicentF... about 2 miles at a guess... 🤨

So you haven't checked whether you are in the catchment or not?

I have, and we're not... 😔

Are you certain there is catchment priority rather than just distance - Surrey usually doesn't have catchment areas. Where do your neighbouring children go? Are there feeder schools?

From what I have heard GA is not doing so well. I have children in Woking and I think the schools here are much worse unless you are Catholic :-) Hoe Valley looks amazing and I believe they are following the SJB model but I would guess that will be popular with the fantastic facilities. I know Kings got put in special measures and normally that means a bit of a turn around is due, the head of RGS is assisting and he runs one of the best schools in the country. Christs must be on the up, I know of DC there who have done very well and others that are there currently doing well. Try not to pre-judge the schools as often the head and the feel of the school rather than hearsay can make you change your mind. Good Luck!

Thank you sassy5... 😊

I've just been looking at last year's allocations and I'm confused again now by something else unless I'm reading it the wrong way... it says GA kept some places back and they were filled by late applications???? Could that be right? That seems pretty unfair... so basically if you don't apply on time, don't panic... apply late and you might get in! Surely not... 🤨🤔

Have you been to look at the different schools? Can totally understand your thoughts re Kings as they prob have a long way to go both academically and pastorally even with support from RGS (and GA I think? Have a feeling they are now part of GA MAT are they not?) however I know several people with children at Christ’s who are all very happy with it so that may not be a bad option for you if you can’t get GA or County?

I think Hoe Valley probably not a realistic option for you as you will be too far away - they are relatively small and full with local applicants. Also worth noting that although they are about to move into shiny new building and early indications are promising, they are still relatively new and do not have proven results yet, so you may be taking a bit of a gamble there anyway.

I do get the stress - the difficulty with Surrey is that it’s pretty much all based on ‘nearest school’ (once you take SEN/LAC and siblings out of the equation) so if GA or County isn’t your nearest school you are very unlikely to get in as they fill up quickly with siblings and those for whom it is their nearest.

Our nearest school is GA but we even so we are still quite some distance from it (we fall into a bit of a nomansland for secondary schools between Guildford and Woking) so I am also concerned that by the time I am applying (only Yr 2 at the moment) we won’t get in and then goodness knows what we would get allocated....I can only watch and wait for now though!

Where are you reading that? It says some schools had vacancies, and those were the ones that were filled from late applicants.

Schools don't keep places to one side just in case.

Titchy... this is what I don't understand... if the school had vacancies why were they not filled by those on the waiting list? Why were they given to late applicants?

Suitcaseofdreams... I'm so glad I'm not the only one thinking like this... I get the most random things just pop in my head when I least expect it... and then I get all stressed about it! 🤗🙄... I know I'm being totally ridiculous... I'm not so nuts that I don't actually realise I'm being nuts! Lol 😂... unfortunately my daughter is at Northmead, which I also don't like... and I should have appealled to get her into Queen Eleanors where we wanted her to go... I don't plan on making the same mistake twice and will fight for the right school this time round... we live between Stoughton and Worplesdon, and with my daughter being in Northmead, the feeder school to Christ's, I expect that's what well get landed with... I don't really know why they bother to give people choices tbh, it's not like there is any choice in Guildford really...

Titchy... this is what I don't understand... if the school had vacancies why were they not filled by those on the waiting list? Why were they given to late applicants?

There wouldn't have been anyone on the waiting list if they had vacancies.... By definition! They are schools which were under-subscribed.

These seem to be the allocation profiles for Surrey secondary schools for September 2018 (page updated on May 2nd, according to the website):
www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/158949/Secondary-allocation-figures-September-2018-V2.pdf

George Abbot School

1. LAC & PLAC. 2. Exceptional social/medical need. 3. Siblings at the time of admission. 4. Children of staff who have been employed by the school for more

than two years at the time of application. 5. Children for whom the school is the nearest to their home address. 6 Any other applicant. Criterion 1 = 1, Criterion 2 = 3, Criterion 3 = 147, Criterion 4 = 2, Criterion 5 = 143, Distance = 6.594km, Criterion 6 = 0, SEN/EHCP = 4 Offered 300 Guildford County School

1. LAC & PLAC. 2. Exceptional circumstances. 3. Siblings at the time of admission. 4. Children of staff who have been employed at the school for more than two

years. 5. Distance to school. Criterion 1 = 3, Criterion 2 = 0, Criterion 3 = 66, Criterion 4 = 3, Criterion 5 = 104, Distance = 1.802km, SEN/EHCP = 4

Interestingly, George Abbot's first what one might call 'general' criterion is not 'distance' per se, but 'Children for whom the school is the nearest to their home address'. So if there is another school closer to home than GA, the applicant would presumably fall into Category 6 - under which criterion no offers have been made for this year.
Schools can't 'keep back' places - if there are places available for all who apply, then all who apply must be offered a place. If more apply (wherever they ranked the school on their CAF) than there are places, then all applicants must be ranked by the school according to its oversubscription criteria

However, not all those who can be offered a place will actually have put that school in a position on their CAF above any other school which can also offer them a place. So on the initial run of offers, not all places may be filled, but late applicants (moving into area after the cut-off date for change of address / people changing preferences etc) will then be offered the places still available - again, all of them if there are enough places, but once there is only one place left and more than one applicant, the child who fits into the highest oversubscription category / ranks highest on the the break if I'm the same category, will get the place.

... also, by having a choice, you end up with 'favourites like we have here... if kids just automatically went to their closest school, schools would be more equal across the board and teachers wouldn't all be desperate to teach in 'better' schools leading parents to want particular schools too, as they'd be the same across the board...

You see Tichy... I've gone nuts!!!! Lol... is there a name for it? Maybe I've got MMS rather than MS... mental mum's syndrome!!!! 😂🤗😉 LOL