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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Having nightmares over secondary school selection...

146 replies

Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:05

Question: has anyone ever refused point blank to send their child to a secondary school that there is no way in hell you'd let your child attend and basically said you'll keep them home until they get one of your preferred choices?

OP posts:
Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:40

The school we want, everyone wants... its the best stste school around and they usually have 20 applicants to every one place...

OP posts:
LIZS · 07/05/2018 20:41

If it is In Year catchment etc is only used to rank a waiting list, not determine admission. If there is a place and no list, or those ahead decline the offer ( settled elsewhere perhaps) it could be offered.

PatriciaHolm · 07/05/2018 20:41

Have you actually looked at the distance that successful applications actually normally go out to for the school you want?

meditrina · 07/05/2018 20:42

Many secondaries do not have siblings as a criterion, because by that age they are expected to be making their own way to school so having siblings together for east of family travel logistics no longer applies. So you may not be missing out on tha score.

You'd need to check about staff, as it's often usually teaching staff only, and some have a minimum period of employment to be completed before eleigibiltiy kicks in.

tentontruck · 07/05/2018 20:43

We had a similar situation with our catchment school being one that we really didn't want DD to go to (and nobody wants their DCs to go to!) Those who put their preferred schools got none of them and were given the school nobody wants, which would probably be your situation. They put their DCs on waiting lists but they were so long they still haven't got in (from Sept) so you'd need to be prepared to home school indefinitely.

Others chose to put a 'safer' school as one of their choices, ie not a great school but one that was a lot better than the one that nobody wants. That seemed to work out better as they ended up going there and seem to have quite positive feedback. A small number of people either moved house or chose a private school.

Someone managed to specify that they didn't want that particular school under any circumstances. They didn't get any of their choices and were given another school that nobody wants but at the other side of the county!

I feel for you, we found the whole thing very stressful and we can't afford to move or pay for private.

Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:49

Im going to sound like a terrible snob now and I don't mean to, but the two closest schools to us, which we don't want... are on council estates and have been known for years as being downright awful, one in particular for bullying problems... I certainly don't want to tarnish everyone with the same brush, or offend anyone, but I've generally found that alot of the kids that go to these schools come from the local estate, from broken homes with half a dozen kids, absent dads (or mums), on every benefit they can lay their hands on and speak to their kids with language I don't want my child having to listen to, because the kids just follow suit and talk as if they've crawled right out of the sewer... now I know it's not the kid's fault, it's how they're brought up... but it's not my fault either when we've taught our child manners, how to behave around grown-ups, etc... I just feel that we are totally stuck... we live in a lovely area, it's just that it's flanked on either side by two dodgy ones...

OP posts:
Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:52

You sound totally like us tentontruck... it's just driving us totally crazy! PatriciaHolm, where can I get all this kind of information? From the school itself? The local authority? Can I find this stuff online?

OP posts:
Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:57

Meditrina... this is why I ask about staffing criteria now... I could get a teaching position now, knowing I haven't got to do the admission for 6 months and by the time my daughter would be due to actually start secondary school, I'd have been working there for over a year. I'm at home because I'm lucky enough to choose to be, but I'd go back to work if it helped with the school issue.

OP posts:
Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 20:59

I'll keep up with people's posts who have any other constructive advice or have been in a similar position as us and have appealled... although, tbh I don't know how we could even appeal as our only real reason is the fact the other schools are awful.

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meditrina · 07/05/2018 21:03

It'll be time on staff at applications deadline, and how long it needs to be would be specified in the admissions criteria. It varies between schools, many don't have this criteria at all and those I've seen have specified 2 years by applications deadline.

Starlight2345 · 07/05/2018 21:05

Have you been to the other schools . You should look and put down anything you would consider . If you are not going to get in your chosen school you need to decide how you can proceed

riceuten · 07/05/2018 21:05

"Question: has anyone ever refused point blank to send their child to a secondary school that there is no way in hell you'd let your child attend and basically said you'll keep them home until they get one of your preferred choices?"

Why would you do this ? Let me just spell out the consequences of doing so. You are placing ZERO pressure on the local council by keeping your child at home (infact you are making the admissions department's job easier). All that is likely to happen if you keep the child at home and don't register as home educating is you are likely to become clients of the Education Welfare Service (EWOs) who will pursue you relentless, and fine the crap out of you for not sending your child to school.

"Staff priority occasionally still exists but is rare, and normally requires staff to have been working there for a significant period of time before application."

Typically 2 years and/or teach in a priority subject.

meditrina · 07/05/2018 21:06

BTW I've always assumed, but don't actually know, that it tends to be 2 years because that fits with the time up to which people can be dismissed easily.

Anyone know if that's likely to be right?

Guiloak · 07/05/2018 21:12

George Abbot does have being a staff member as high up criteria. Just look up all the admissions criteria. The waiting lists move as lots apply to both state and private and there is no incentive to turn down the state place until the last minute. I can guess where you live. You will probably be on the waiting list for your preferred school but may get in. Moving may be less stressful!

derekthe1adyhamster · 07/05/2018 21:12

If you don't work, could you not get a job and send her to one of the private schools?

RedSkyAtNight · 07/05/2018 21:13

Your LA website will most likely have the admissions criteria up (though of course they will be this year's criteria and may change next year). You will also be able to see historically where schools took children from i.e. you'll be able to work out what schools you would have got into historically. Where do other DC that live near you go? Yours can't be a unique dilemma?

(My DC's school has children of staff as a criterion but it has to be in a shortage subject or you have to have to have been on staff for 2 years... hence why you need to check out the exact admissions criteria!)

suitcaseofdreams · 07/05/2018 22:04

If it’s GA you want then you have to have been a member of staff for 2 years at the time of admission so not sure you have time?

All the info including how places were allocated this year is on the Surrey website - just google Surrey School Admissions
Based on this year (and all previous years I think) if GA is not your nearest school you would not have got a place on first round allocations which I expect you already know

You can appeal though (and lots do) - you have to find reasons why it would be the best school for your child - for eg it offers certain clubs or subjects that they excel in which the other school does not...

Good luck!

GU24Mum · 07/05/2018 22:19

OP, I'm guessing you want either George Abbott or County? If you look on the Surrey CC website it will tell you how many places were allocated in the various categories. Although you'll only be category 5, there are miniscule numbers allocated in 1, 2 & 4. Remember too that the distances are only those on the offer day - they do move a bit (although sadly not as far out to get my DS in!).

Bluesmartiesarebest · 07/05/2018 22:38

I think that your only options are to move house, send privately or home school. I moved house when I was faced with a similar situation and I’ve never regretted it.

Original poster
Heidi243 · 07/05/2018 22:57

Lol... what gave me away guys? You're absolutely right! First choice - George Abbott, second choice - County... my third choice was going to be the new school in between Guildford and Woking called Hoe Valley but I'm not sure now as a child my daughter was having problems with is highly likely to get that one as they've just moved virtually next door to it! If I don't put three totally different schools on the admissions form won't they just assume I'm not bothered where else my daughter goes? For any other parents that might be in the Guildford area, what happened if you didn't put Kings or Christs? Did you end up not getting any of your chosen three and they gave you one of these two schools anyway... dud you appeal and on what grounds? Were you successful? I know all my questions are really random and hypothetical but I just want to be fully armed before looking at any other alternatives. Also, 'Derekthe1'... if I really could afford to send my daughter to Tormead or Guildford Girl's School, believe me I would... I've even looked into bursaries/government funding due to state schools being over-subscribed to... I'm looking at any and every way to keep her out of the two no-go schools in my area.

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Lougle · 07/05/2018 23:14

Admissions is a totally blunt instrument. They won't make any assumptions. It will be processed fairly and impartially. If a school isn't on your list as a preference, you will simply get the nearest school that has a place that you meet the criteria for and are the nearest to. E.g. if your child was a "category 3, Distance" child, and was exactly 1 mile from school A and 1.1 mile from school B, but you'd put B as no.1 on your list and A as no. 2, you'd get B. If you hadn't put A on your list, you'd still get B, even though they know school A is closer. If you hadn't put either on your list, and none of your list schools could take your DS, you'd get A because it is the closest school left with a space.

KittyMcKitty · 07/05/2018 23:15

Heidi243 schools are legally obliged to publish their admission policies on their website. Your LA will have allocations distances for this, and previous years on their website. I would read both of those before deciding whether to panic Smile

Haskell · 07/05/2018 23:57

So you're not prepared to move, and you're not prepared to work to pay fees, (even though there are no childcare issues as this is an only child)?
So how are you prioritising your child's education? Confused

Sorry if that seems harsh, but you seem to think your child should automatically swerve these two terrible schools, just because?
I'm sure no-one wants their children in terrible schools, that's why those with the power to do something about it do so.

GU24Mum · 07/05/2018 23:59

OP, you'll have to put six schools on the form for Surrey so if you really don't want Kings, you'll need to work out how realistic your chances are of getting the other 5 schools.

Do you think you'll miss out on GA/GCS because you may be between them both but not close enough to either or because you live the other side of one of them? I wouldn't be put off Hoe Valley just because you know one person there you don't want to be with - you can probably ask in due course not to be in the same class BUT I thought HV's catchment was largely Barnsbury & Kingfield/Westfield so if you think you've got a chance at one of the Guildford schools, you're probably too far for Hoe Valley and vice versa? Depending where you live, have you looked at the other Woking schools?

Do you know where the children in your daughter's school will get into as that's a good indication of what you're likely to be offered. I think there's at least some movement on the waiting lists. You can improve your chances by filling up your six choices. I've known quite a few people be allocated the school you don't want (albeit none lived in Central Guildford) but they all got into other schools off the waiting lists.

Guiloak · 08/05/2018 06:20

Do you live in JW if so you will get Christ's and may get GA in waiting list. I went back to work to pay for DCs school fees so if you want to prioritise her education that is a thought. Some of the privates offer good bursaries but you would have to be working unless disabled child to look after etc... Through my work I know this year the privates were inundated with late applicants as so many people got given kings and Christ's, including people that live in Woking. Move or go back to work. GA not as good as it once was, County is just as good if not better, I would move to Howard of effingham area to go state.

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