Maths teachers should be paid more than PE teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Maths teachers should be paid more than PE teachers because there is a critical shortage of maths teachers and we have plenty of PE teachers.

What would people think of this? It was a topic that came up on the teacher polling app Teacher Tapp a while back, with mixed opinions.

I’m not saying that maths teachers are more important than PE teachers, or have a more difficult job (I’d rather teach bottom set Y9 than supervise rugby in the winter). But as a retention tool? Some say that it’s already happening with teachers of shortage subjects more likely to be waved up the pay scale, or hired on a higher point or given a meaningless TLR, but it’s all ad-hoc.

The DfE throw money at people to train in shortage subjects, but then there’s no extra money to retain them. Although in maths next year maths students will be getting a retention bonus after 3 and 5 years, the initial bursary has dropped significantly and NQTs could well still be starting on M1, and there is nothing for teachers already in the system.

What do people think? (Obviously I say maths because I’m a maths teacher, but the same argument would go for other serious shortage subjects). Should market forces determine subject pay scales?

Sorry yagotta but based on actual experiences from both sides, I beg to differ. My school where I am a governor does care and has just drawn up a wonderful wellbeing policy but at the same time, in a keenness to 'learn' those governors call constant meetings with middle leaders which uses time and produces admin. Do you really think an anxious middle leader would either relish that meeting, or be honest in it? Since we got a new head at my governing school, I feel he has been increasing workload and pressure and I think the governors have fallen for it.

And you do sound rather like an SLT apologist! They obviously work long hours. They are also paid a lot. And they should always be considering whether their hard work increases lesser paid staff's workloads all the time!

Getting down off soapbox...

noble by the way, I saw a poll last week about experiences of part time work for teachers of a specific age , which I now can't remember. But if you google a bit you might find it. It's that organisation that focuses on progression for women who take maternity leave.

those governors call constant meetings with middle leaders which uses time and produces admin

Yeah, maybe they should just sit back and assume everything is fine. That would help.

Hopefully you're feeding in alternative suggestions for effective governance.

They are also paid a lot

No, they're not paid a lot compared to what they could be earning in a less stressful managerial job elsewhere.

Our SLT are regularly working until midnight and rarely take a break during school holidays. They all deserve thanks (and big pay rises if there was any money for it) as do the vast majority of the teachers.

Really, they shouldn't be working til midnight. that's inefficient as much as anything else!

Perhaps as governor you could suggest pay rises!

But I would say lots of governors do fall for the SLT narrative which comes from..... SLT!

I'm not sure what kind of school you are in, but at my place the deputy heads earn £75000. That's a lot of money. I am not sure they would earn as much as much elsewhere always.

I honestly don't think the meetings are necessary. they certainly don't happen in the school I work in.

I am a parent governor as it goes, so my focus is mainly on parental satisfaction.

I couldn't help but pick up on all SLT deserve thanks but only the vast majority of teachers !

“allows a good mathematician to spend more time teaching FM and STEP to able pupils, quite different to helping a discouraged pupil to get their all-important GCSE pass. “
The distinction between being a good mathematician and a good teacher. A passion for maths v a passion for teaching. There will be big variances in how far they coincide.

Same for all subjects, I imagine.

Moosemousse - you're a fool or just biased or both

teaching maths is harder than some subjects = more teacher resentment.

how is that being a collective community if you are selling out the front line tougher subjects exactly? you must be an art or history teacher i'm guessing.

in that case why don't you pay your cleaner at home the same as you get paid? come on in it together...exactly didn't think so.

paying more to some people for doing the exact same job with the same contract, the same hours ... not entirely ethical?

Isn’t this done already with the pay scales? Someone on M6 gets more than someone on M2, with no change in role or responsibilities.

I think a school having clear pay (rather than hidden by made up TLRs) for shortage subjects should be considered. I teach physics and could earn significantly more outside of teaching. Pay wasn’t the main driver for me but is for others, not just graduates but also career changers, who bring a lot of valuable experience.

I think some people could earn more outside teaching but not necessarily a better overall package. I think the ones that can don’t go into teaching in the first place because their personalities are just not a good fit. I do wonder where all these high paid jobs are that mean instant riches? Most of the secondary heads around here get over £100k. Some £120k plus. Not too shabby!