GCSEs 2018 (3)

[mmzz]

Following on from:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3113917-GCSEs-2018-2

bluebelle and loose thanks for support. Hopefully in a few years the job market will have plenty of stem specialists and will be in desperate need of musicians who can recite Rimbaud in the original

I think the thing with maths is, if you are good at it, it is extremely easy. I'm not sure the same would apply to English, or a MFL or even the sciences.
As an example, if you look at what's required for GCSE maths, there isn't really that much to it, IF each module / skill is implicitly obvious within a minute of a teacher starting to describe it.

For every other subject learning is a slower burn. e.g. in Biology all those long names are never going to be something you instantly put in long term memory. Or in History, no child is born with advanced critical thinking, able to sift through and sew together various pieces of information in order to argue a compelling case. So, IMO maths is a special case.

TBH I am more concerned about the 7 for Physics. It should be do-able but DS will need to aim for a 9, if he wants to ensure at least a 7. The downside of that, is that he's going to have to spend a lot of time revising Physics at the expense of either his free time or one of his other subjects, such as RE or History.

I did music, art and English lit a levels drummer and there is nothing wrong with your DSS a level choice.....would he be interested in a session with a cornetist?

All will be fine mmzz

I have a student who came top in the world (out of around 6000 students) in a professional exam with a high level of numerical content who would not have been given a grade 8 at GCSE. I didn't get a grade A at O level against all odds, but I went to to get top grades in A and S levels. They will undoubtedly be rejecting students and making them feel they have failed, when they are actually capable of studying with great results at a higher level. Schools shouldn't be putting up barriers when the country desperately needs people to study maths beyond GCSE.

Although the grade boundary was low, it was only low because so few students failed to get respectable marks on the paper. A pass (grade 4) was awarded for a mere 17% - that is embarrassingly low.

I don't really know what to make of that. Sometimes exams go wrong and people end up with grades they didn't really merit. It is a problem with linear exams, but the other options (retakes and continuous assessment) were flawed too. Continuous assessment was a good idea in theory, bit in practice it was open to abuse.
I don't see why done who likes maths would give up on it just because they couldn't do it at this one school.
Maybe I'm being obtuse and haven't really understood your point?

drummers another interesting thing is that the top seven skills most valued by Google are all supposedly ‘soft skills’ of the sort that arts and humanities graduates tend to have. The Washington Post had a very interesting article on it in December. DH says skills in English and communication are very highly valued in IT. He still regrets not taking English A level although maths is his prime interest so he did physics. Even now he still complains it was boring!

Stickerrocks my comment was specific to the SS school, at DS's school you have to get at least a 6 in maths to be able to do A level.

Both of our local 6th forms accept a 7 for maths. My point is that the country is desperate for people to take maths, but students will write off trying to take the subject if schools insist on setting such high requirements simply to be able to access the A level course. Many students with a 7 at GCSE can easily go on to get an A or higher at A level. Even if they don't a B or C at A level is still a good grade, so schools should be encouraging them to try rather than setting barriers. I have an issue with the entry requirements for A level rather than the exam system getting them there.

6-7at dgds school for maths because of the algebra apparently. They are tested for a month on this when first starting A level so I was told. If they don't cut it then I suppose they have to change but I'm really not sure on this. They do advise that even though they take a 6 a 7 is prefable for this reason.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of my profession. You need maths A level regardless of grade to access the professional exams either from an apprenticeship or at graduate level. I want everyone to be able to take A level maths, so I can continue to train the same kind of talented students I see at the moment! Schools are there to open doors, not slam them in student's faces.

There is also the question of double science versus triple science. Apparently it really doesn't make a difference when choosing a science A level as double sciencers tend to catch up with the ones that took triple do one science teacher said in year 10. Dgd doing triple.

Sostenueto DS2 will also have to do an algebra pre-A-level test in September in order for his place to be confirmed on the Maths A-level course.

Trouble is stickerrocks the schools are judged by their performance and so if they are producing a load of DC coming out with D/E's in a level maths I'm sure you can imagine the backlash. Can't say I know what the answer is.

I think setting grade requirements is hard ... after all there could just be 1% between the two grades A* (8) 75% and A/7 (74%)...does 1% make a difference between studying a subject at A Level ?

I'm lucky enough to live in an area where no state schools have 6th forms. You either go to a 6th form taking around 1500 - 2000 each year or you go to a college offering BTECs, diplomas and more vocational qualifications. As long as you have 5 GCSEs at grade 4 or 5, you are virtually guaranteed a place at the college of your choice. DD'S chosen college in in the top 20 nationally, but despite living a relatively long way away and effectively regardless of grades, she's got a place there just because she applied.

I've never encountered selective state education, so I need help in understanding what you're facing. So do those of you in these SS areas all have 6th forms within your schools? Would pupils from ordinary schools feasibly be offered a place in a SS 6th form at the expense of existing students? Am I right in thinking you effectively have a 3 tier system with SS, "ordinary" grammars & non-grammars? What would happen to bright kids from ordinary schools who do well in their GCSEs, where do they go?

Many students with a 7 at GCSE can easily go on to get an A or higher at A level.

Not in maths they don't. Some do, but most don't. And if you get a 6 (old B) the most likely outcome is a fail.

Grade requirements for maths are set that way because schools don't want to waste pupils' time on a course they can't access.

There was an awful lot of allowances made for last years cohort which won't be the case so much for this years cohort. But considering the new math GCSE higher paper contains a lot of AS level questions the crossover to A level won't be so bad. So really no need for more than a 6 in the GCSE for entry to do A level is needed IMO.

To get a 6 only needed 40% on the higher paper. You didn't need to get anywhere near AS level questions to get that. No real evidence that this year's Y12s were any better prepared for A-level than last year's, tbh.

So Noble is there something wrong with the level of maths being taught to achieve a grade 6 if A level maths is then considered to be inaccessible to them? I can only speak from my own experience of teaching for professional exams, where students who may not have achieved straight A*s at A level but have that crucial A level in maths are absolutely on par with their Oxbridge colleagues. I'm now wondering how many talented people have decided they "can't do maths" because of a percentage point between an A and a B.

The problem is with the design of the GCSE and it has been a problem since they ditched the Intermediate Tier. Students can get a relatively high grade at GCSE without actually being able to do the algebra that they need in order to successfully access A-level. It's not the grade that's important, it's the amount of algebra that they can do. A student who got a 7 who is weak at algebra will struggle more than a grade 6 student who is great at algebra but crap at geometry. That's why schools do screening tests - because GCSE grades don't tell the full story.

The new GCSE was supposed to be better preparation for A-level because it was made harder, but a) they made it harder by adding in lots of stupid new topics so increasing breadth and b) they made the questions so much harder that the grade boundaries are stupidly low.

@Stickerrocks I don't exactly live in a selective state-education area (aka grammar area). There is a grammar school about an hour away (when counting changing trains, or waiting for buses, walking to and from the station), but 99% of state schools are non-selective comps. There's also a lot of independent schools, which vary in how selective they are.

Some of the state schools have sixth forms, and others don't. Typically the schools with the better GCSE results have the sixth forms. I don't know how that came about - it was just what was there when I moved here. Additionally, there are some 1500-2000 sixth form college options, as well as the sort of places where you go to do Health and Beauty (also called colleges).

If you want to do maths or whatever, then you just decide where you want to do it, and as long as there is a space and you pass the interview (I've never heard of anyone failing the interview) and get the grades, then you are in. There are a lot of options for places to study A Level maths. The SS sixth form college is just one of the options, but its a bit different from the others in terms of how demanding the course is.

DS got 95% in his maths mock without doing any preparation at all. That's fairly typical for him, and I'm not stealth boasting on his behalf, just trying to explain how its not really about sweating to get an 8 (or a 9). I know its unusual. However, I suspect its run of the mill at the SS college. In fact, I believe that DS's maths ability will just be ordinary come September. Maybe he will be in the middle or bottom set.

Everyone else in his current maths class - all of whom are predicted 8s or 9s (I suspect, knowing the school) - will stay on and do A level maths if they want to in the school's sixth form. Those at the other schools, where the school doesn't have a sixth form will go to another school's sixth form (if they can get one of the few places, or go to one of the sixth form colleges and do whatever A levels they want to and are up to doing).

@drummersmum - The country needs STEM students, but that does not mean that every able student should only choose STEM. (How stupid would that be?!)
From my own little world, I can tell you that right now I need to find someone who is talented at marketing (something which is extremely creative) and I also need to find someone who can do some vector drawings, and maybe an animation. I am beyond useless at both. I can't design for toffee. I can do logic problems, which is useful but the other side of my brain doesn't seem to be able to be creative, something which others find as easy as breathing. The working world definitely needs (and values) both types - creatives and number-crunchers. Marketers are highly prized in the workplace and incredibly well-paid.

Thanks mmzz. Cracking maths marks! I think I'll stick with living down here to eliminate some of the grade pressure though.

Noble that explains a lot. My students have to have an algebra brain and I definitely do. Triangles etc are pointless!