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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Going for better school...

231 replies

user789653241 · 19/01/2018 13:32

I had a thread here before and had great advice from a lot of posters regarding going for scholarship and bursary.

DS is exceptional at maths, and also doing better than average in English, and he is in YR5.
I had a talk with my ds in depth, and he doesn't seems to want it at all, like preparing for entrance exam etc. He is very strong willed and wouldn't do anything he doesn't want to. So preparing for the entrance exam will be unlikely.
He says he is happy to go to local sinking school with his friends. Destination isn't great, I am not sure if they do actually accommodate his needs or not and only goes up to 16.
What I really wonder is, can he be able to go further is he wanted to, even after attending sinking secondary school?
I really don't want to send him to where he doesn't want to. But worried his outcome maybe restricted. I don't think many will go to further education at this school, many end up leaving school as fast as they can.

OP posts:
Shimmershimmerandshine · 21/01/2018 09:01

I think Ds's ability is totally irrelevant, if the schools poor then it will be poor for all the children and arguably the brighter he is the more likely he is to cope. But it would be a good choice for no child at all

I wouldn't let a child go to a poor secondary school if I had any choice at all. I've taught in a couple and they were truly awful places for all the children. So find somewhere else for him op.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 09:04

Mmm- I would be surprised if you haven't looked at data in as much detail as you can considering the decision.
However, hope you feel better soon and good luck with your decision.

converseandjeans · 21/01/2018 09:06

If he isn't keen on doing preparation then maybe ask his class teacher if he can do entrance papers as classwork? I agree with others that he would be better off in a grammar/private school. Schools are judged on progress made rather than overall results so it is true the number of grade 9s won't necessarily be their priority. I went to grammar school and can't recall any disruption to lessons.

Shimmershimmerandshine · 21/01/2018 09:09

Schools are judged on progress made rather than overall results so it is true the number of grade 9s won't necessarily be their priority.

Well if the OP's soon got 120 in his KS4 SATS he would probably need to get a 9 to show good progress, so it would be their priority.

converseandjeans · 21/01/2018 09:09

dinky OP shouldn't be judged for not liking the local comp. Lots of comps are amazing. Unfortunately it is a postcode lottery.

Shimmershimmerandshine · 21/01/2018 09:09

KS2 I mean.....

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:10

Dinky, I have, I just can't be bothered to post a data in detail since my head is foggy as requested by Bert.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 21/01/2018 09:14

Having read threads about irvine’s DS and discussed his maths ability with her, it’s worth pointing out that her DS isn’t ‘120 in Maths SATs bright’ or ‘not really working at KS4 level’. He’s genuinely exceptional, and it won’t even out at A-level. What he really needs is an expert to take an interest in his maths education (at the moment he is teaching himself from the internet). He would be treading water in maths lessons in whatever school he ends up at, but private schools will have access to more resources.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:17

Shimmer, my ds achieved expected standard for ks2 in ks1. But since I am not sure how he achieve on his test, I wouldn't say he would definitely achieve 120 on ks2 sats, he can zone out, make silly mistake, or he could get 100%. That's one of the reason I am not sure he will do well at entrance exam.

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 09:18

I agree with Shimmer re progress. If DS1 does not get 8/9 in most subjects [9 in a couple the progress needed] the school and him will be deemed as him not making enough progress from starting points.
DS2 a different kettle of fish and will have very different starting pints for progress and the school needs to support all types of children.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 21/01/2018 09:18

OP, you've made your decision, and that's fine. You don't want your ds to go to the local comprehensive. But please don't assume, based on gossip and an assumption that private is always better, that a comprehensive is sink.

I'll repeat this again, as I think it needs saying. If the school is the only local school there will be other bright children. It does sound like your ds is an outlier - but that will be true wherever he goes. However, there will be children surrounding him who will do well, who will go to RG universities, or even Oxbridge.

You need to realise this, as the local school may be the school that your ds will end up attending. And the more negative you are about it, the more likely your ds is to have a negative experience there.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 09:20

Op, that is the difficulty with tests and I would hope general progress and interviews would count but I know nothing about the grammar or private system.

Shimmershimmerandshine · 21/01/2018 09:20

It's UMS Irvine so you don't need to get them all right to get 120. If he is anywhere near as gifted as you say he will get 120.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 21/01/2018 09:36

Focusing on him getting a 9 Sort f demonstrates the issue. Yes, it looks like progress on paper, but in reality him getting a 9 in year 11 and that being all he had been taught would be an absolute failure by the school.

The question you need to be asking is what they will do in the next couple of years to stretch him beyond the GCSE curriculum. If they can’t give you a fairly specific newer to that then it probably isn’t going to be meeting his needs.

BertrandRussell · 21/01/2018 09:40

Fair enough. It’s difficult to be helpful if we don’t know what we’re dealing with, though! And when I was dealing with less than ideal schools the appropriate statistics were burned into my brain in lertters of fire.............

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:44

Thank you, noble, for vote of confidence, sometimes MN makes me feel like I'm talking nonsense.

OP posts:
Shimmershimmerandshine · 21/01/2018 09:46

That may well be the case rafal but someone was misunderstanding what schools have to do for progress measures.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:48

I know your are helpful to the poster genuinely need help, Bert. Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:51

Rafa, at the moment he is doing maths as he pleases, so no structure at all. I really would like him to learn everything in more detail, guided by someone who knows maths inside out.

OP posts:
LML83 · 21/01/2018 09:53

It's natural your son wants to go with friends.

Can you confirm if friends are going to sinking school? If not your son may feel differently.

Show him the new school, is there any way he could meet people from new school? If there is a local club some pupils go to perhaps he could attend?

Reassure him you will help him maintain contact with existing friends if he goes to the other school.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 21/01/2018 09:57

That’s what made me think about schools with extra-curricular maths provision as well as ones that would be happy to teach A level content.

I think a schools with a decent array of STEM clubs would probably catch his interest and be an easier sell.

BrendansDanceShoes · 21/01/2018 10:18

Matilda, I don't agree that bright children may end up at the 'sink' comp. Else results would be better and pull up the rest, as I mentioned in an earlier post. If you are faced with an average comp that just focuses on those weaker kids for the progress 8 measurement, and lets stronger kids coast, what does a bright/exceptional kid gain from that? That's why so many discussions on mumsnet are about looking elsewhere for a school that best fits a child. The comp never gets better as it is self perpetuating, good kids go elsewhere, the comp always ends up with the weaker kids, results are lower, good kids are sent elsewhere and so on.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 10:24

A school that let brighter children coast would negatively impact their progress 8 score.
A school with a good moral compass, will aim for ALL children to progress well from their starting points.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 10:25

I do agree though Brenden about a negative cycle and schools re admissions...

Yvest · 21/01/2018 10:34

I think he needs to be with a proper cohort of high achievers. My kids are at a comp but it’s a very good one. My eldest is around the middle of the top set in maths. His minimum target grade is an 8 which means that there are at least 15 kids ahead of him who will be expected to get a 9 and another 15 in that set who are expected at least an 8. The middle sets have 7, 8 & 9 as their targets. There are also 20 kids taking additional maths. Therefore I’m happy there are enough kids of high ability to make sure they’re challenged. Unless the comprehensive you have in mind can offer this then make the decision on your son’s behalf and send him somewhere more suited to his needs.