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Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

750 replies

vik2017 · 30/10/2017 15:31

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....Smile
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 05/11/2017 15:37

"for “normal” Kent grammars you just need a pass and to live within catchment."

Dopes it ever happen that some grammars have more children in its catchment who pass than it has spaces? And does it then revert to the 'superselective' model of ranking scores OR does it rank pupils by distance from the school within the catchment?

Is it possible to pass but have no school to go to within a reasonable distance?

UsernameMum · 05/11/2017 16:08

The schools can only take in pupils according to its admissions criteria. Therefore a DC with full marks at Kent Test could miss out on a place and the DC who scraped a pass but lives next door would get in. In theory however I think everyone who passes does get a grammar place with a few cases of missing out being rectified by the appeals process.

Ta1kinPeece · 05/11/2017 16:18

BINGO
We now have leafy and non leafy grammar schools.
I shall go and pick some vegetables while I stop laughing.

UsernameMum · 05/11/2017 16:24

Surely not all schools are equal in an individuals perception of them whether they are grammars, comps or state primaries? Some do have a more MC cohort, because they are in a more MC area. Compare Tunbridge Wells to Margate.

mountford100 · 05/11/2017 16:26

Well yes you can't compare 'Stretford Grammar with Skinners They are poles apart in cohort ! Stretford Grammar actually achieved a respectable 94% at level 5 in GCSE in August !

Stillwishihadabs · 05/11/2017 16:32

Ds got in to a super selective via a village primary + 1.5 hours a week tutoring in year 5 + a paper a day in the summer holidays. Dd had similar and has passed the 11+ ( not sure if her score is SS yet).

Stillwishihadabs · 05/11/2017 16:33

Btw Ds's school does have 100% A-C.

BertrandRussell · 05/11/2017 16:37

"BINGO
We now have leafy and non leafy grammar schools."

Grin I am still recovering from the suggestion a while ago that private school A levels are of a better quality than state school ones..........
mountford100 · 05/11/2017 16:45

Slightly off topic. What i do find quite unpalatable and shocking is that nationally 29.3% of pupils have AT sometime in the last 6 years been eligible for FSM. That means almost 1/3 children have been in family circumstances , where their parents, if in work were in Minimum paid jobs or part time jobs. They are earning between £7.20- £8 per hour , Just £8.25 per hour for 37 hours a week singularly or joint = an income of £15,873 and renders a family ineligible for FSM. Shocking....

Taffeta · 05/11/2017 16:46

cantkeep

Most local grammars round here have a levelled carchment area in their oversubscription criteria eg

  1. Children living in certain named parishes or postcodes
  2. Distance

There are still black hole pockets, but it’s better than it used to be round here. A few years ago a boy passed near Sevenoaks and was offered a grammar in Folkestone! He got into a more local one on appeal.

mountford100 · 05/11/2017 17:00

Taffeta. I read about that on the Kent Independent Education Site.

roundaboutthetown · 05/11/2017 17:11

Well, it is frankly ridiculous to argue that all grammar schools are viewed the same way. The parents of the privately educated child who was aiming for the Skinners' grammar school in Tunbridge Wells would probably rather hell freeze over than move to Dover to get their child into one of the grammar schools there. Grin

cantkeepawayforever · 05/11/2017 17:14

I also wondered whether the 'less popular' grammars, the ones that are not full from those who have passed the Kent test / catchment, allow more appeals from those who have failed the test?

In other words, is the playing field 'level in the first round of admissions', in the sense that no-one who fails is initially allocated a grammar place, but that in certain schools it is easier to win an appeal because places are empty, and therefore that certain schools admit more children who 'failed but got in on appeal' than others?

Taffeta · 05/11/2017 17:15

Skinners is a super selective though so that’s not a comparison.

But take your point — Kent is a big county with leafy parts and deprived areas, and most towns have grammar schools.

mountford100 · 05/11/2017 17:19

School Appeal Outcomes Across Kent and Medway 2017
Updated with the four missing outcomes.
This article looks at school admission appeals in Kent and Medway, building on a previous article about appeals heard by the Kent County Council Appeals Service, which should be read in conjunction with this one. It focuses on all appeals set up by schools themselves, either using a commercial or professional organisation, or else organised by the school itself.

Overall, the proportions of appeals upheld by Kent grammar schools at 38% and non-selective schools, at 22%, are almost identical to the 2016 figures.

In Medway the percentage of appeals upheld in both sectors has fallen, although the grammar school figures are highly polarised with the two Chatham Grammars seeing 69% of appeals upheld between them. The other three grammars admitting girls saw just 7% of appeals upheld overall. Just four Medway non-selective schools heard appeals with 19% successful.

For schools with their own appeal panels the lowest percentages of success for grammar schools were: Cranbrook (Year 7) 0%; Fort Pitt 5%; Rochester Grammar 7%; with Skinners and Tonbridge Grammar at 8%. Highest were: Harvey 89%; Oakwood Park 81%; Chatham Girls 76%; and Holcombe 64%.

For non-selective schools, lowest were Bennett Memorial 3%; and Brompton Academy 9%. Highest: Howard School 73%; St Gregory’s Catholic 64%; and Sandwich Technology 60%.

Whilst many schools will tend to see similar patterns year on year, circumstances for individual schools can change sharply, with some examples below. To find my general appeal information and advice for Kent Grammars, Medway Grammars, and oversubscription for grammars and non-selectives follow the links.

Further details below, including primary appeals heard by Local Authority Panels....

Read more...
Written on Thursday, 19 October 2017 20:41 Be the first to comment! Read 378 times
Provisional GCSE Results for Medway 2017
Last year the long established 5 A*-C GCSE league table including English and maths was scrapped, being replaced by two new assessments, Progress 8 and Attainment 8. Both these are measured by an arcane formula combining results in eight curriculum subjects to produce numbers whose meaning and spread is very difficult to comprehend, but enable schools to be placed in an order. Government has made amendments to further reflect policy, which has the unintended effect in Kent and Medway of further rewarding the top performing grammar schools and diminishing those with a higher proportion with lower abilities.

These Provisional results are issued at this time to enable families to be better informed when making secondary school choices. Last year a number of schools saw a small improvement in results in the final version to be published in January.Unfortunately, once again, there has been such little publicity given to them that most families are not even aware of their existence.

The key measure is Progress 8 (full table here) which looks at progress from the end of primary school to the end of Year 11, comparing pupils to others nationally, who begin from the same starting point, with Medway above average at 0.04, against a National average of -0.03. Victory Academy is the only non-selective school to split the six grammars at the top, with Greenacre next.

Attainment 8 (full table here) simply measures what it says, with Medway just below the National average of 46 at 45.5, although there is a variety of other statistics to choose from to suit your case.

Further information below, including the performance of individual schools, and a look at another measure, the English Baccalaureate ......

Read more...
Written on Monday, 16 October 2017 16:29 Be the first to comment! Read 421 times
Provisional GCSE Results for Kent 2017
Update on Simon Langton Boys below

Medway Outcomes here

This is the second year of the new GCSE assessments for measuring schools performance, Progress 8 and Attainment 8, which replace the long established 5 A*-C GCSE league table including English and maths. Both these are measured by an arcane formula combining results in eight curriculum subjects to produce numbers whose meaning and spread is very difficult to comprehend, but enable schools to be placed in an order.

The key measure is Progress 8 (full table here) which looks at progress from the end of primary school to the end of Year 11, comparing pupils to others nationally, who begin from the same starting point, and is rightly given priority in measuring performance. Under this measure, Kent is slightly below the National Average of -0.03, at -0.11.

Meopham 2

Attainment 8 (full table here) simply measures what it says, with Kent exactly equalling the National score of 46 ranked 60th out of all Local Authorities, although there is a variety of other statistics provided to choose from to suit your case. Both measures have had their methodology changed to suit government priorities and the new grading system for English and maths. As a result, numbers are not directly comparable.

Headlines: the Grammar School progress table is no longer the sole preserve of West Kent and super-selectives with four girls' schools invading the top eight. Highworth, Invicta, Folkestone Girls' and Maidstone Girls have joined Tonbridge, TWGGS, and Dartford Girls', leaving Dartford as the only boys school. Both Oakwood Park and Chatham and Clarendon come below the national average, along with one provisional result for a school which failed for technical reasons, as explained below.

Top non-selective school is Bennett Memorial, one of six church schools in the top ten, the top three ever present also including St Simon Stock and St Gregory's. All these three are wholly selective on religious grounds, and at the top also in attainment. For the second consecutive year there are remarkable performances by Meopham School and Orchards Academy, neither of which have the built in advantages of other top performers. As last year eight schools were below the government floor level with well-below average progress facing government intervention, five the same as last year.

Five of the top six grammar schools on attainment are unsurprisingly super-selective in West and North West Kent - along with Tunbridge Wells Girls'. These are the same schools as in 2016, balanced by five boys and one mixed grammar at the foot. The Non-selective table is led by three church schools, Bennett Memorial leading the way above two grammar schools. Five non-selective schools are at the foot of both Progress and Attainment Tables.

Orchards 1

Further information below. including the performance of individual schools......

Read more...
Written on Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:11 2 comments Read 699 times
Kent Test Results 2017: Initial outcomes
I now have initial information regarding the Medway Test, happily provided promptly, posted here.

Kent Test results have now been published with the pass mark the same as last year. An automatic pass has again been awarded to candidates scoring 106 on each of the three sections - English; maths and reasoning – along with an aggregate score across the three sections of 320. This total will again be around 21% of the total age cohort across the county, with further details to follow as I receive them.

An additional number of children will have been found to be of grammar school standard through what is called the Headteacher Assessment, usually around 6% of the total. You will find full details of the whole Kent Test process here. Overall, these two processes last year yielded passes for 26% of Kent children in the age cohort.

One important and welcome change is that KCC are now making individual test scores available to parents who registered online from 5 p.m., so there will no longer be the anxious wait or chasing up of primary schools for results of previous years.

As last year, I shall be publishing a second article later when I receive more data from KCC.

You will find initial figures released by KCC below, together with further information and ways I can support you. I find that the information articles on the website (RHS of this and every page) with links below, answer the majority of questions I receive.

As usual there are hysterical and grossly misleading headlines in some online newspapers about the shortage of grammar school places, which have whipped up a torrent of unnecessary fears on some of the more neurotic online forums (often driven by out of county families). Although KCC cannot guarantee every Kent child who has passed, a place in a Kent grammar school (not necessarily of their choice), there have been no reported cases in recent years of Kent children not getting in who are looking for a place, although a few have had to go to appeal. Further thoughts below.

Read more...
Written on Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:23 5 comments Read 2379 times
Medway Test Results 2017
I am rarely caught out completely by admission matters, but events at the two Chatham grammar schools for entry in September 2017 have completely amazed me. These are compounded by the Medway Test results this year, when the built in bias towards girls’ success has completely vanished, as explained below.

The Medway Test outcomes, in summary, have seen 23% of the Medway cohort this year found suitable for grammar school before Reviews take place, which is exactly on target as in 2016. However, the annual gender differential stretching back for years, which saw 25% of girls passing the test as against 21% of boys in 2016, has disappeared, with 23% of both boys and girls passing for admission in 2018.

Both Chatham grammar schools have been suffering from a shortage of pupils in recent years: in 2015, Chatham Girls admitted just 93 pupils with a planned admission number of 142; and Holcombe Grammar (previously Chatham Boys) 106, PAN 120. This September Chatham Girls has admitted over 180 pupils, Holcombe over 150.

The main reason for this dramatic surge in numbers is the influx of London children who, uniquely in Medway are grammar qualified for the two Chatham’s by virtue of success in the Kent Test. For September 2018 entry, there were 659 out of county passes, including 263 from London Boroughs (the largest number as always were the 381 from Kent).

So, what do these remarkable outcomes offer for 2018 entry? Some thoughts below, together with further analysis of Medway Test results. You will find further information on the Review process and its implications for appeals, here, which will answer most queries.

Read more...
Written on Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:36 2 comments Read 803 times
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Taffeta · 05/11/2017 17:21

cantkeep - it’s absolutely the case that it’s easier to win appeals at some grammars rather than others.

The ones that are notoriously the hardest to win are the Dartford and Wilmington ones, as there are so many appealing from SE London who may have passed with very high scores but be out of catchment.

As an example, last year Wilmington Girls grammar heard 122 appeals, 10 of which were successful, but none of which hadn’t passed the test. The Dartford appeals win figures were even lower.

Certainly where I am, the schools that are further away from London or have trickier public transport to them have a better chance of appeal success.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/11/2017 17:24

The percentages of success don't really help to answer the question, though, do they?

5% could be 1 out of 20, so 1 additional child in the school, or 5 out of 100, or 25 out of 500 - almost a whole classful.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/11/2017 17:25

the schools that are further away from London or have trickier public transport to them have a better chance of appeal success.

Are those also the ones with lower ability cohorts - ie more children in the middle ability and and fewer in the high ability group when you look at their GCSE result breakdown from 2016?

Taffeta · 05/11/2017 17:26

Are those also the ones with lower ability cohorts - ie more children in the middle ability and and fewer in the high ability group when you look at their GCSE result breakdown from 2016?

No. Just further away or trickier transport.

MumTryingHerBest · 05/11/2017 17:28

Taffeta - It would never admit pupils who hadn’t passed the test or won an appeal.

Do any Kent grammars do a 12 plus or 13 plus exam like Bucks?

cantkeepawayforever · 05/11/2017 17:33

So does an appeal ever admit someone who failed the test? Or is it just about placing at a different grammar from the one initially allocated?

Could you give me some examples of the schools that are further away / trickier transport that you were thinking of? it would just be really good to look at some actual data.

MumTryingHerBest · 05/11/2017 17:34

cantkeepawayforever So does an appeal ever admit someone who failed the test?

Yes

Taffeta · 05/11/2017 17:34

I think one in Maidstone might do a 12+ but most don’t. You have to wait til 6th form.

berliozwooler · 05/11/2017 17:34

Just to add another anecdote to the mix, I have an extremely bright untutored child who failed the 11+. Make of that what you will

That your guilt has led you to your whinging about the Kent Test on these boards for the last two years?

Taffeta · 05/11/2017 17:35

berlioz - that is really nasty