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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

750 replies

vik2017 · 30/10/2017 15:31

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....Smile
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

OP posts:
vik2017 · 07/11/2017 08:52

Sometimes I get surprised by the reactions and could not get the idea when people say ‘oh poor kid’ do they actually know about poor kid definition, do they mean if parents are ready to sacrifices their preferences over their DC then you call DC ‘poor kid’ or poor kids are where parents don’t give a damn about them and leave them their own and lots of news out there and I assume people would have read them as well one example, where parents did not want to disturb their sleep (due to any reason) and left little one (had cold and waking up again and again) in the bath with stroller so can get some steam and both went to bed but by the time they woke up little one was already dead, so not getting idea what you are calling poor (I really disliked it). I don’t know if that little girl was not poor whose father abandoned her in middle of the night to die and there are lots and lots of examples out there where parents don’t want to change their lifestyle coz of DC.
Many time, I expressed my concern and showed that there is no pressure on DS, I am at planning stage but some likes to assume things rather what’s intention. To get into grammar you probably would need a good pre (I did not know earlier) so how I am planning too early. Can you (who assuming pressure on DS or very early planning) imagine what I am ready to do for my DS, we are ready to leave my friends behind, I am ready to pay for pre and even I did not mind paying for his private secondary (looked at Tonbridge school and is madly expensive £9743 per term) so still not getting what do you mean. Other day I read question online where mother is asking something like ‘will my son mind if we make love and scream when he is in next door’ so I am struggling what would you say to them.

If I want to give my DS every opportunity to be succeed then what is wrong in that? If I am hoping to get him into grammar for which best way forward is
Prep (specially for grammars) + Tuition + Grammar catchment area and I am planning accordingly then what is wrong in that and I don’t see any harm in being proactive…

I really got very helpful advice and comments (and thankful to all for that) here but don’t know some still try to ruin the actual idea behind the thread by being little judgemental…

OP posts:
Taffeta · 07/11/2017 09:01

OP - I think you need to ignore the judges. As you’ve probably gathered there’s a huge amount of sensitivity over grammars and 11+ places. Parents invest a lot of time, effort and stress into the process for their children. Others who don’t live in grammar areas get pissed off at others that suggest that a grammar school might be better than the outstanding comp their kid is at.

It pushes people’s buttons as everyone wants the very best education for their child. If they see what they perceive to be a sharp elbowed parent trying to get what they perceive to be the best education for their child, they will relate it to their own experiences and views and often feel threatened about their choices.

You really should have a look at the Kent section of the Eleven plus exams forum. Quite a few parents posted recently, their child having taken and passed the test, and they now are scrabbling to move somewhere in catchment before the Dec deadline. The short shrift they’ve been given by others is eye watering, and lots have even been deleted, sorry, “moderated”.

Floralnomad · 07/11/2017 09:11

Good luck OP , and do take a look at St Andrews if you get the chance , it’s a delightful little school , and worth a bit of a school run to get to .

BertrandRussell · 07/11/2017 09:35

"The short shrift they’ve been given by others is eye watering, and lots have even been deleted"
A spat on the 11+ forum? Surely not! Grin

MumTryingHerBest · 07/11/2017 10:35

Clavinova just to a few points to note. Since the first post OP has stated that they are now looking for Grammar as first choice and “top indie” as fall back.

I posted to state that if OP is looking at Grammar with comp. fall back they don’t need a prep. If they are looking at Grammar with “top indie” fall back then prep. would be best. I do think a prep. is the best route for a “top indie”, I don’t think a prep. is needed for Grammar.

if one of the child's parents is a doctor for example, then it's probably a reasonable expectation if nearly 30% of dc in Kent pass for grammar school.

I find it hard to believe that any medical professional will predict that a 4 yr old has a 70% chance of gaining a place at a grammar. In fact I find it hard to believe that they would entertain any discussion about the likelihood of Grammar at that age, full stop.

so how I am planning too early

Because you are trying to identify a secondary school before your DC has started primary school. The phrase “all your eggs in one basket” springs to mind. I did ask you earlier about your DCs interest in Maths, English, Languages, Sports, Art, Drama, Music etc. all schools differ in terms of what they offer as an all round package. The risk you are taking now is that you move to an area only to find your can’t get your DC into the Grammar school you really want in a few years time due to catchment or logistical issues.

looked at Tonbridge school and is madly expensive £9743 per term

Do bear in mind the advised % year-on-year inflation to be factored in when planning affordability of school fees.

You may also find, due to moving at such an early stage, that the “top indie” you want is only accessible through a boarding option which will increase the fees further (which is why I asked which “top indies” you would be considering).

Taffeta my DC has done the 11 plus. I have no problem with people who choose Grammar Schools. However, I find it hard to get my head around those to blindly believe “Grammar is best”. More so when they have never even set foot in one. OP was initially looking for an area that will give access to Grammar with comp. as a fall back option. They have now changed their mind and now want a Grammar and “top indie”. They have not even looked at any of the schools that have rejected outright.

they now are scrabbling to move somewhere in catchment before the Dec deadline. The short shrift they’ve been given by others is eye watering

Can’t say I’m surprised, those scrabbling to move before the December deadline are, more often than not, the ones who don’t bother to check if it is feasible or necessary to move within catchment before putting their DC in for the test. It is only when they have a score in hand or are filling out the CAF form that it occurs to them to check. They seem quite happy making their DC do extra work for a few years to prepare for the test but they can’t quite find the 10 minutes needed to read the admissions policy. These are normally the same people who post comments like – DC scored X, what Grammar school can they get into (Whilst posting the same question on three or four different Regional boards at the same time) – Or, we live in Scotland, My DC scored X, does anyone know any private mini-bus service that can take my DC to X Grammar (they then realise they need to move PDQ) – Or, I’ve submitted my CAF, does anyone know how my DC can best travel from Scotland to Tiffin (they then realise they need to move PDQ).

BertrandRussell · 07/11/2017 10:54

Not so sure about not being able to predict potential 11+ success at 4. In our area (25% going to grammar schools) I could make a pretty good stab at predicting who was going to pass in Reception by looking at the contents of their lunch boxes and the brand of their winter coats! Grin

mountford100 · 07/11/2017 10:56

if one of the child's parents is a doctor for example, then it's probably a reasonable expectation if nearly 30% of dc in Kent pass for grammar school.

I think it is proportionately and statistically likely, that a child growing up in with two professionals parents and educated privately ; has a 60-70 % chance of 11+ or Common Entrance success!

MumTryingHerBest · 07/11/2017 10:58

BertrandRussell of the 5 top scores in my DCs class only two had been at the school since reception. One joined in yr3 and the other two joined in yr4.

BertrandRussell · 07/11/2017 11:02

"One joined in yr3 and the other two joined in yr4"

Well, I would have had to pop round to their old schools to check their lunch boxes........Grin

mountford100 · 07/11/2017 11:03

It would be highly fascinating if information was available that showed what the average income and jobs ; that parents of grammar and comprehensive school children have respectively .

We only have a very rough and a statistically un- representative FSM measure, which tells us little !

MumTryingHerBest · 07/11/2017 11:06

BertrandRussell Well, I would have had to pop round to their old schools to check their lunch boxes

The 2 that went all right through the school were on school dinners Grin

ChocolateWombat · 07/11/2017 17:55

I think that when people say 'poor child' they don't mean the child has a lack of care, but that children can be overly invested in and the resulting pressure this can cause isn't always good, but can be a burden.

If a child knows that their parents moved away from all their friends and made huge sacrifices so they could go to a Prep and then to a Grammar/Indie they could feel under unbearable pressure to perform. That's why people say 'poor child'. It is certainly possible for people to live vicariously through their child.

Of course, moving house for schools in itself doesn't have to but a burden on a child as described. It's possible to move and be laid back and to enable a fun childhood....but the more rigid and fixed the plans are far in advance for the child's education, the less likely this is to be possible.

Again, schooling is just one part of a child's life and just one small part of a whole family's life.

Op, by all means look for good schools. However, you can also have confidence in yourself as a parent and the opportunities and environment that you will bring them up in, that what YOU are giving the DC will make a huge positive impact. YOUR impact will be bigger than that of the school, whichever school he goes to. It's really important to keep that in perspective as well as a family life being more than school and that the whole family I'll have to live wherever you move to for many years and be affected by the schooling choices you make, especially if you pay.

roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2017 18:24

Basically, OP, you are doing nothing wrong in thinking ahead and wanting to live somewhere where your child will thrive and receive a good education - you are just focusing a bit obsessively on grammar schools! Still, if you can find somewhere you think you would be happy to settle, where you think you could make friends, where there are plenty of opportunities for your child to take up both in and outside of school, and that happens to be in a grammar school area (and you are confident you will be able to afford private if they don't get a place or don't actually like the style of education offered when they look round it - as schools can go downhill over the years, jobs and wealth can also suffer misfortunes!), then go for it.

vik2017 · 07/11/2017 18:41

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, they were really helpful and I really appreciate all....
I however, will update you about my decision Smile

Thanks again!!

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2017 20:04

Surprise us all and tell us you're moving to Scotland or something! Grin

CamperVamp · 07/11/2017 21:52

A PP has expressed exactly the reasons I said 'poor child'.

We all want the best for our kids, and we can try and give them the best opportunities, but in putting expectations on them we potentially load them with pressure, guilt, obligation and more.

I feel sorry for the 11+failures crying (as one PP described) , and wonder how a 10 year old boy feels when he knows his parents whole life plan was built around his success in passing one test on one day.

But I wish you luck in your search for the right thing, OP.

jabwemet123 · 03/12/2018 18:08

Hi Everyone,
This is my first question on this board...
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area both for girls and boys and also if my daughter and son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Aru

saffy2 · 13/05/2021 11:26

IM interested in the outcome of this thread? And to update your if no decisions were made yet. Skinners changed their admission criteria, which means the catchment is now under 3 miles, and Judds entry line is now extremely high (387 this year) and believed to keep increasing. We live in Tonbridge and my son passed exceptionally well (well above 360 which is skinners entry line). And he was allocated a non selective school. I worked my butt off and we appealed and we won so he will be going to skinners. But only around 5% of appeals for skinners are upheld every year. So definitely don’t rely on an appeal.
On the flip side, Maidstone grammar still has spaces...as in Maidstone not enough boys passed above 360. But unless you are living v close to skinners you won’t get in now and unless you score exceptionally high (which you really really can’t know at only 4/5 years old) you won’t get into Judd.
On the other discussion I’ve lived in TW and now Tonbridge. I like them both, but Tonbridge is lovely. TW is an empty shell of a place these days!

SJaneS49 · 14/05/2021 17:04

I was in TW last weekend (and Tonbridge today!), I’m not sure I agree at all that Tunbridge Wells is an ‘empty shell of a place’ right now, looked pretty fine to me! Maidstone on the other hand looks very run down with much still shut or closed. I like Tonbridge & think it does get an undeserved hard time from TW and Sevenoaks, I do think if money wasn’t an option I’d go for TW, there is just a lot more to do.

Surprised you didn’t get Skinners as the 2 boys from DDs year (8) who applied from where we live in outer Sevenoaks got in and we’re further out - I knew the E Sussex boys weren’t getting but I don’t dispute what you’re saying at all and to not get in from Tonbridge, wow! And you got offered a non selective not TWGB? I would have thought they’d have more places with the Sevenoaks annexe opening and they don’t tend to be first choice with the parents I know with boys at grammar.

Dobbyisahouseelf · 17/05/2021 00:17

Lots of good Grammar Schools in Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells with children commuting from Sevenoaks too, although there is an annexe in Sevenoaks for girls and boys from (2021).

Just be aware that some of the Grammars have a very small catchment Tunbridge Wells Girls Grammar was 1.8 miles (2014). Others like Tonbridge Girls Grammar take on highest score.

Best non Grammar is Bennet Memorial in TW which is a faith school.

saffy2 · 08/06/2021 21:50

The skinners catchment last year, so current year 7 was 3.7 miles and this year was 2.44 miles. Nobody from Tonbridge got in this year, and chances are never will again unless the admission criteria changes again. (It changed from score being placed higher to distance from school being placed higher as long as scored over 360.)
He wasn’t allocated TWGSB as we didn’t put it down, due to the Sevenoaks annexe, he attended school in Southborough and hasn’t ever even been to Sevenoaks. So I didn’t want him allocated to a site in a town he doesn’t know separate to his friends who all live in southborough.
I’m surprised you wouldn’t describe TW as an empty shell!! Apart from WILkos and Poundland there is very little there! No food court anymore, river island, topshop, topman, gap, H&M All gone within the last 2 years. Ely court has obviously been improved, although it’s not always open in my experience and the loss of Mr Simms is really sad. The pedestrian zone is very empty as is RVP and apart from the zero waste company there’s not a lot of attraction to the pantiles either shop wise. I struggle to buy anything there tbh!

SJaneS49 · 09/06/2021 07:22

He could have been allocated the original site though @saffy2 rather than the annex? Tonbridge to High Brooms is a very simple journey. But I get what you are saying about wanting him to go with children he knows and congrats on winning the Skinners appeal. Driving past the annex yesterday in Sevenoaks, they are going to have to put in an immense amount of work to get it opened by September as well!

I’ve been to TW a couple of times over the last couple of weeks and yes there are shut shops and restaurant chains but I just honestly don’t get the ghost town vibe of Maidstone at the moment! Maybe as it’s always had more shops than anywhere else. I like the Pantiles and the higher end shops & cafes - it’s where I tend to gravitate too. I don’t dislike Tonbridge at all but shopping wise & eating out wise there is absolutely no comparison with TW in the least.

saffy2 · 09/06/2021 07:36

It’s based on distance, I looked into it before inputting our choices and we are closer in distance to the Sevenoaks site. It would have been a very big risk assuming we would get the TW site. And yes I know the journey to TW is short, I want him to go to school in TW, if there had been no Sevenoaks site and no question over which site he would be allocated we would have put down TWGSB. I have no issue with the journey to TW from where we are, he will in fact be going further into TW to get to skinners. The issue was the uncertainty over which site we would be allocated and my certainty that I didn’t want him in Sevenoaks.

Last time I went to Maidstone I felt the complete opposite and would much rather go there than TW, there are much more shops to choose from and all much bigger than TW, lush for example. Walking through RVP these days is extremely upsetting, there are very few shops open in there. Camden road is very quiet. Yes there are restaurants and coffee shops. But I also like to shop for clothes etc. There are very few affordable shops now in TW to buy kids clothes, and even less to buy adult clothes! Compared to 10 years ago, or even 5, TW is an empty shell.

SJaneS49 · 09/06/2021 13:44

We’re going to have to agree to disagree I think! Other than Zara & Waterstones there isn’t really anywhere I’d want to shop in Maidstone!

But very pleased for you that you got the school you wanted and sorry that involved hassle by the sounds of it. Best wishes to DS in his onward journey!

saffy2 · 14/06/2021 12:54

I have not said that Maidstone is better than Tunbridge Wells, although I do think there is a lot more there compared to Tunbridge Wells which has very few shops indeed. I have only been taking about Tunbridge Wells and how there isn’t much there, especially in comparison to 10 years ago. I am comparing Tunbridge Wells to itself. And in comparison it is now extremely empty, not many shops, and indeed lots of good restaurants have gone/changed hands too over the last few years. Unless you’re extremely wealthy of course!

Thank you, extremely relieved that he’s into his first choice school. It was worth the effort for him 😊

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