Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

[vik2017]

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

Bertrand
You can use the tables as well as I can ...
Kent open in one tab, Hampshire in another.

There is a MASSIVE cut off between the selectives and non selectives in Kent
but the selectives in Kent do not consistently outdo the comps in Hampshire
which logically they should

Floralnomad ... not so good Grammars

I'm guessing they can be found here along with the ones that don't look so good on paper as the top performing Grammars:

The following grammar schools had more than ten vacancies at allocation on 1st March: Chatham and Clarendon; Dover Boys; Highworth Girls; Maidstone Girls; Norton Knatchbull; Oakwood Park; Simon Langton Girls. Fewer than ten vacancies: Sir Roger Manwood's. Between them, these eight schools have 241 vacancies.

www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/962-kent-secondary-school-allocations-2016-initial-statistics-and-advice.html

Fort Pitt sent a lower % of pupils to Russel group universities 7% than Wellington in Altrincham did 11% . One of those pesky modern schools, that won't get in to its box !

Also whilst looking at the GCSEs for Fort Pitt , what you need to compare them with are Medway non Grammars like Thomas Aveling , Walderslade etc at which point I think Fort Pitt will look like an excellent state option .

As with my point earlier about letting in more pupil premium children and grammar schools no longer being considered a golden ticket... there is a strong correlation between areas of deprivation and grammar schools not getting brilliant results. Or does nobody know Chatham or Dover very well?! It's somewhat unfair to compare predominantly wealthy parts of Hampshire with deprived parts of Kent.

Exactly , and that also explains why less go to Russel Group unis , lost of poorer children go to local unis to make it affordable , so in Chatham you have the University of Kent campus and Greenwich .

@Taffeta: I know it is hard to answer precisely but I wanted to get idea..

If I were poor and living in Dover, I would be delighted if my child got into one of the grammar schools - not because I thought it was a golden ticket to Oxbridge and being a High Court Judge, though, but I would expect it to give them a better chance of getting out of living in poverty in Dover.

No i think Fort Pitt Grammar suffers from being next to the two girls grammar schools !

Rochester Grammar 95% @ level 5 GCSE 34%@ Russell Group

Chatham Girls Grammar 84% @ level 5 GCSE 15% @ Russell Group

You can use the tables as well as I can ...
Kent open in one tab, Hampshire in another.

There is a MASSIVE cut off between the selectives and non selectives in Kent
but the selectives in Kent do not consistently outdo the comps in Hampshire
which logically they should

I think Hampshire is much better off Socio Economically than Kent.

Roundabout There is an old saying "you become like the people around you"

In a schooling context , if you are surrounded by children of professionals who have aspirations , you imitate those children and families.

Clearly if you are in a school with a lot of children, who have no aspiration and come from families that gave up long ago. What chance does any child have !

Which is why grammar schools are generally not a good thing in Kent, as they do nothing to raise the aspirations of a large proportion the 75% whilst the wealthier children from already aspirational families tend to predominate in the grammar schools, which they do not need to raise their already high expectations.

Interesting about the Kent grammar spaces listed above. Is this because the Kent Test is hard and not enough children in these areas have passed the test? Don’t forget some of these are on the coast and don’t have 360 degree catchment areas.

Re is it better to use a Private Prep or a state school with tutors...

Well, what you often find is that those using a Prep often also have tutors. If you are considering Prep I would ask some very detailed questions about exactly how they prepare their kids for exams. Bearing in mind that the Kent test will test different things to independent schools (some use VR, some NVR, some English,mso me maths, some use CEM) it would be worth knowing if they prepare for both independent and state grammar and exactly how. What people often find is that Prep school prep is fairly general - which is why people end up with tutors too.

If you have a tutor, they should be prepping for exactly what your child is personally going to sit. So actually, if the you get a good state primary, then a good tutor or parental DIY will be perfectly good...and save lots of money. The key with Prep schools or tutors is to be clear on how the schools test that you are applying for and to be sure that the Prep or Tutor will do enough focused prep on these areas, rather than just general work.

Vik, you need to know a lot more before you decide where you might it might not want to move to. As I say, i would work backwards from the hopeful end point, being realistic. I would also work out how realistic paying is, along with the varying house prices in different areas, plus cost of schools and tutors.......there's actually loads to research and one forum won't provide all your answers.
Crucially of course you need to visit the areas and the schools. Sometimes people seem to forget these vital aspects. The area will affect the whole family for many years....you need to want to live there and for it to work for all memebers of the family in terms of work, schools, social life and general happiness. One child's school is just one small (and actually short term) element in all this - where you live us to deliver on all requirements.

@Floralnomad: Really liked your option...

Roundabout
I know exactly what Dover is like. I used to live there.

I think Hampshire is much better off Socio Economically than Kent.
Really?
Portsmouth versus Tunbridge Wells ?
Woolston versus Cranbrook?
Andover versus Tonbridge ?
I believe that one of the reasons that the researchers compare them is that they are remarkably similar over all
The IMD data shows them both to have the full spread.

I would argue a private prep that exists purely to get DC through the Kent Test and only takes up to Y6 plus private tutoring will give a higher likelihood for the “average” child to pass the test than a state primary who is not legally allowed to prep for the test in anyway plus private tutoring.

Talk1nPeece - perhaps a more fair comparison between schools would be to compare Portsmouth schools with Dover schools, then, not Dover schools with schools in Winchester!

User, yes you are right. Many Preps however don't exist purely to get kids through the Kent test but also have to focus on getting kids into e independents too - so the focus isn't as clear as it could be - children may do less prep for the exam type they need and spend some time on other types that are not useful for them.

Also, preparation in a group or class at Prep never gives you the 1-2-1 focus of a tutor. The explanations and picking up if weaknesses by a teacher to a class may suit an individual and their needs or not. A tutor is totally targeted. This is why people with kids in great Preps also go for Tutors - because they want that 1-2-1 targeted approach that you cannot get unless you have a tutor or you do theorem yourself. The best Prep in the world is still teaching classes and not individuals.

Good state schools are perfectly able to cover the maths and English on the NC to a good standard. A tutor can cover any yr6 stuff needed which hasn't yet been covered and plug any gaps. Bearing in mind the £1000s saved by using tutors instead of Prep schools (esp if you need tutor too) you cnq see why loads go for this option.

I suppose some people with very average children might decide their kids need more than a state school will provide. For kids who really are very borderline and not naturally in the top 30% but perhaps at 50% parents might decide that a prep will give them the boost to get them to standard - well they might or they might not. Preps and tutors can do some polishing, but excuse the expression, you can't polish a turd - some children simply will never pass the Kent test and that won't be the failing if the school or tutor - it has to be accepted as fact.

Personally my conclusion on Preps is that a good Prep is worth paying for, for the broader stuff which happens there - the 3 afternoons a week of sport, the great language teaching using specialists, the off-piste curriculum freed from the NC and the solid academic teaching. I think it's worth paying for that. I honestly don't think they do loads more for a kids maths and English than a good state school can do, if a tutor is also used. In fact, the 1-2-1 focused approach of a good tutor which gives very targeted help I think can achieve more in an hour in terms of uplift, than probably 3 hours in school on English and 3 hours on maths in a lovely small class of 16, which is still a group situation and not targeted 1-2-1 help. Pick the Prep for the wider stuff - yes, but don't think they can deliver loads more in just English, Maths, VR and NVR than a good state school plus tutor can. Just my view from seeing kids at state schools with tutors and prep school kids with tutors and without.

But yes, private prep plus tutor, in most cases will be better than state school plus tutor.
The question is whether it's worth the extra £14k a year.

The relatively clever state school kid with a tutor or parent who DIYs will have a very good chance of getting in.

Or, if Portsmouth is the poorest area of Hampshire, compare them to schools in Thanet?

All this goes to show is how much of some children's childhoods is taken up with preparing for specific tests - preparation time which has to be tailored to those specific tests and which is thus a waste of time if you don't pass those stupid tests... How much more valuable would it be for a child to read widely because they enjoy it during that time, or to learn how to do computer programming, or to learn how to do a craft, or get really good at a sport or musical instrument, or to volunteer in the local community, or whatever actually interests them? Obviously, there are parents who ensure no second of their child's day is unoccupied and who ensure their children fit everything in, but really... how much is all this preparation truly necessary to secure the future of already privileged children?

cantkeepaway

In Kent overall, is the pass mark identical for every school - ie that if you get a 'pass mark' you can apply to any grammar and get into any of the schools, and that if you do not get a pass mark, you cannot apply to any - and furthermore that a grammar school without enough 'passers' applying simply remains half-full?

Or is there a 'ranking', whereby some schools require a higher effective pass mark, and others require a lower?

Kent test is identical for every grammar - for “normal” Kent grammars you just need a pass and to live within catchment. So if a local grammar has fewer passing in its catchment it will extend its catchment - or in some cases, have vacancies. It would never admit pupils who hadn’t passed the test or won an appeal.

For super selectives ( there are much less of these ) you need a higher score as the places are ranked by score.

Yy ROFL @ ludicrous Portsmouth / Tunbridge Wells comparison!!

As pp said, please compare like for like. Thanet a more realistic comparison.

I have family living in Hampshire and do get pissed off at their comparisons of comps in leafy well to do parts of Hampshire with grammars in deprived areas of Kent!

In most areas of Kent the grammar schools are full in yr 7 but I suppose they get places as people either move and are not replaced or as some children move on when it’s apparent that they are not really suited without their tutor in place for the entire time . The dartford / Wilmington Grammars get lots of children from South London who have taken the test and the same in Tunbridge Wells etc from East Sussex .