Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

[vik2017]

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

Exactly, Mum - not only in terms of viable top sets etc but also in terms of access to the most appropriate courses - 2 languages, triple Science etc.

Floralnomad out of interest, why would the DCs in top sets in Kent sec.mods. find it much harder than DCs in bottom sets in Kent Grammars?

(Because the 11+ is notoriously inaccurate in terms of discriminating between pupils - ie it assigns a significant proportion to the ;'wrong' school, as exactly the same children taking the 11+ on a different occasion would be sorted differently into grammars and non-grammars - a proportion of the children who should be taking 2xMFL, triple science etc will always end up in the secondary modern, but then can't access those courses.)

The top sets do quite well in lots of the schools 50/60% getting 5+ GCSEs etc , it’s the rest where’s the issue is . Even in the bottom sets at grammar the children have a work ethic on the whole and supportive parents . I would bet that very few GS teachers would ring a parent and not get some kind of support if a child had not handed in HW or been rude .

Sorry, Mum, cross-posted with you.

Obviously this is just my experience and opinion and I am aware that it won’t be popular , particularly on a parenting website which is ,I would imagine , in the main frequented by the types of parent who would be supportive .

The reason people move for schools is to get to the kind of schools with families like their own and to avoid the full range of families. It happens with people moving for Grammars and for successful Comps too.

This is called 'Rational Choice Theory' Parents choice of Schooling for their child is down to conscious and calculating decisions within the context of social structures.

With regard to my early posting.

DD1s best friends when in year 9 (yr 12 now ) were a quite a thieving 'threesome' using their 'respectable' blazer to enhance their enterprises .1st the perception of nice middle class butter wouldn't melt Grammar school girls. 2nd the pockets of the blazer are very handy for storing make up.

I found this out when i went in to DDs bedroom and found make up and other items left out. Eventually DD broke down when questioned and admitted that JS (Not real initials) had given them to her. I put the fear of god in to both of them. This by threatening to inform the store ,the school (likely expulsion) and father JSs father is highly respected Judge if they continued with their enterprises . They both begged and pleaded JS achieved 10 A* at GCSE last year and hopes to get to Oxford.

This in comparison with the other schools children who are often refused entry to stores and when they are allowed in viewed with suspicion .

This is down to soft skills such as standing up right, not looking threatening . Something sadly lacking in some children.

cantkeepawayforever that would explain why, for example, according to the DfE performance tables 2016:

Wilmington Grammar School for Boys had 31 middle ability DCs and 84 high ability DCs

The Folkestone School for Girls had 43 middle ability DCs and 117 high ability DCs

Oakwood Park Grammar School had 38 middle ability DCs and 109 high ability DCs

Dover Grammar School for Boys had 31 middle ability DCs and 83 high ability DCs

In fact it would appear, according to the 2016 data, there were almost 700 middle ability DCs scattered across Kent Grammars.

The middle ability band though covers a large area. Its likely that the middle ability children are towards the top end of the middle ability curve !

Yes.

However, the presence of children labelled 'middle ability' in grammars is also due to the fact that the 'high ability' tag is based on KS2 SATs, whereas the 11+ has been done and dusted nearly a year previously and tests different things. A child highly coached for the grammar school but who then stops coaching as soon as the exam is over may well present as a middle ability, not a high ability child in SATs.

Whether SATs or the 11+ are a better measure of the actual ability of the child can probably be argued both ways!!

We live in a partially grammar county, though where we live the grammars are sufficiently scattered that the 'other' schools are near-comprehensives.

A couple of children from DS's class went to grammar schools based on the old VR-only test. One got 6s and 5s in their SATSs and was definitely 'High Ability'. The other got a 4 and the rest 3s, but had been exceptionally heavily coached in VR .

JS achieved 10 A* at GCSE last year and hopes to get to Oxford.

Sorry 7 A* stars and 3 grade 9s..

he other got a 4 and the rest 3s, but had been exceptionally heavily coached in VR .

A child with Level 3 Sat results in English and Maths is surely going to feel a bit out of their depth at a grammar school. The level and amount of homework required is likely to give the child nightmares.

Sorry, didn't finish my point - so those who pass the 11+ aren't always 'at the top of the middle', especially where the tests are limited and scope and very coachable. I seem to remember upthread someone saying that an area had had to introduce an English test when some 11+ passers were found to be relatively illiterate - and do know of a grammar which managed out pupils based on the fact they would not pass GCSE English.

Mountford, soory, X-posted. Yes, in general, the grammars 'manage out;' such mistakes in their admission procedures quite actively - but they do point out how fallible the 11+ is as a measure of academic ability.

Would that be a level 4 or level 5 pass in English.

The performance Tables know show both pass rates for level 4 and level 5. The vast majority of grammar school pupils should be getting level 5 at GCSE .

I seem to remember reading that the 'error rate' is about 1 in 5 - ie 1 in 5 of the 11+ takers end up in the 'wrong school' / the wrong side of the cut off (ether way) because the test is so unreliable as a measure of ability. Obviously most mistakes aren't as drastic as the one I describe - just that for children of similar ability around the cut-off point, only 4 out of 5 will end up in the right school.

Moutford, the cases know of were pre 2017, so were pupils who would not get a grade C. One at least got a U when they took the exam at an alternative centre, and was still retaking both English and Maths 2 years later.

'Now ' (I was at the lower end of grammar school ) ?

I feel sorry for the children who are tutored so much and then spend years struggling at the Grammars , dragging along at the bottom all the time , must be horrible .

Floralnomad perhaps that is why some of the Bucks Grammars have vacancies in yr10 & yr11. Although it could also be because the impossible commute to school has take it toll.

How does any child 'disclaimer' who does not have severe learning disabilities attain a grade U in GCSE English after 5 years study.

Clearly the child required huge help , even if the child was a Maths and Science genius a grade U makes those skills redundant.

The grammar school should have seen from the first day , that huge time and effort would be required for that pupil.

What the child must of thought of themselves i dread to think, everybody else in the year looking for As or B grades at worst.

I've skimmed the thread so not sure if anyone has mentioned Medway grammar schools. There are 7 - 3 for boys, 3 for girls and one mixed. The Maths School for boys in Rochester is one of the best in the country. Medway has its own Medway Test though so you would need to apply separately. There are good non-grammars but they can be difficult to get into. Also have a University Technical College for 14-19 year-olds specialising in science, engineering and construction. Commuting to London rail stations (fast trains to Victoria, Cannon Street and St Pancreas) Hope this helps with your search.

CORRECTION . The child did not even pass Maths, god grief ! I thought the Essex 11+ CSSE practice papers in English /Maths were roughly equal to a D grade GCSE. Especially the English practice paper, this is quite tough with some difficult vocabulary .
Check them out

Mountford - I think I made it clear that this was in the days when 11+ was simply VR in some areas.

Hopefully the new wider tests, which I know are now used in our area and I hope in all, would more accurately identify such children - but as I said,. the 11+ is known to be a poor test in terms of accuracy / reproducibility of who 'passes' and who 'fails'.

It was a classic case of the parent seeing the overall results of the school and believing that their child would automatically get those results. The fallout was huge in the family.