Was this teacher joking or being unkind?

[youarenotkiddingme]

DS (13) is very anxious (has ASD) and struggles with some aspects of school.

He also seems to have difficulties with some teachers which I know is common as some people don't fully 'get' ASD.

One teacher DS has had issues with repeatedly this term pointed a ruler at him today and said "someone annoying is at the end of this ruler"

DS responded cheekily and she wasn't happy about it but then told him he would be let off detention because she didn't want to stay behind at the end of the day.

Personally I think she knows she was out of order and as his keyworker has already had to have words about her following his behaviour plan she was saving face.

DS just says she finds him annoying and doesn't really like him. I get she may feel that way. (She should be subtle about it though!)
I want to know what others think because I'm not sure whether to see if anything develops or intervene before it goes too far?

Any POV gratefully received.

I don't know much about asd but regardless... any teacher who points a ruler at any kid and says "someone annoying is at the end of this ruler" is completely in the wrong in my opinion

She doesn't sound like she was'out of order' at all. Can teachers not even use gentle teasing these days? He might have been annoying. He'll need to learn to cope with much worse in the future and bouncing in to make his life perfect isn't going to help with that. Can't you explain teasing to him? Most ASD children I've known can understand humour from others.

If she knows he has ASD it would surely make it easier for him to cope if the teacher tried her best to be clear and unambiguous, (actually that's sensible advice for all pupils). That sort of comment isn't going to tell him what he was doing that was annoying, or how to improve.

I think that's really cruel to single someone out.

I think the teacher was saying we are annoying to each other, no?

Did he ask her which end?
My ds has asd and even if it was gentle teasing from the teacher he either wouldn’t see it like that or give as good as he got, which it sounds like your son did and fair play to him. Why shouldn’t he be able to ‘tease’ her?

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I think tone of voice and teacher's facial expression would probably be the key to whether it was meant as a joke... Therefore poor taste on teacher's part regardless of intent - another child may be able to pick up on such nuances, although still not really acceptable to be pointing rulers at children. However if your DS is rather more literal in his evaluation of situations as most ASD children I have taught are, then it's definitely worth reminding the teacher of that and hopefully the same mistake wouldn't be made again.

I realise that people with ASD arent good at getting jokes or anything non literal but it will be a sad day when teachers cant joke with the children they teach.

Yes he did reply "which end!".

My point isn't that she did it - more that when he replied cheekily she made a further point in front of the class about him being lucky she doesn't want to stay behind after school.

Getting into trouble is one of ds biggest anxieties and teachers should know this.

I just think either have a laugh with pupils where it's understood it's a 2 way thing or don't do it in the first place.

From what ds has said (and he reports everything very factually!) she tends to make snide remarks to him a lot. I don't want it to escalate to where she thinks this is ok but it's not ok for ds to respond and/or him getting anxious over it.

To be honest it sounds like the 'I'll put you in detention' was meant as a continuation of her joke - unless she really is humourless most teachers I have worked with would have had a chuckle at that, and a laugh with colleagues about how quick witted he was! However it may still be worth a chat with her, as she may actually be mortified that she is upsetting your DS and like to put it right.

Which end, that's brilliant, the teacher totally set themselves up for that.

It sounds like a poorly executed attempt at humour andvtrying to get him onside.

It doesn't sound malicious though.

It's so hard when ASD children misinterpret 'humour' as it's a totally mystifying world to many.

Trying to bridge the gap can be difficult for teachers.

That said, anything involving irony etc is ano go if you have an ASD pupil.

I will confess though I did once ask a pupil to 'get a wriggle on' as I completely slipped into Yorkshire-ism and totally forgot he'd misread it. We were having such a good time in the class we got distracted. Hence saying we needed to get a wriggle on.

Poor chap looked utterly bewildered. I felt awful.

I'm not asking why she said it or what she may have been trying to achieve - nor whether ds should or shouldn't be learning to engage in humour.

Ds is actually very quick witted and gets some humour - he's very dry.

He, like me assumed the teachers actions and words were a joke. He responded as such.
But she wasn't happy that he responded which has left him (and me because of what he's said) confused as to whether she meant it to be a joke in the first place.

Not helped by the fact there's a history between them which was sorted by his keyworker who said she was in the wrong for asserting what she wanted over his behaviour plan when there was no reason for it.

I will make similar jokes to ds but wouldn't react in the way teacher did because he outwitted me back.

What was he doing that she was finding annoying and what does it say in his behaviour plan about how she should deal with it?

I would say that it's not really appropriate to try and outwit a teacher who's picking a child up on their behaviour, much as the response was a good one.

It's so obviously the set up for a well-known joke that I'm struggling to think that the teacher would be offended by the punch line. I would assume that the 'lucky I can't be arsed to give you a detention' was a continuation of the joke, but it would be weird if she was snippy with it.

Not sure it's worth contacting her over it, but just counsel your DS to be more cautious in his interactions with her in future and if she is more obviously off with him then follow it up if needed.

You could use this as an example of "sometimes trusted adults are just unfair. Be careful how you deal with her and talk to your keyworker if she is confusing you"

Sounds like the whole thing was a joke - the ruler thing and the "detention." If anything, I imagine the teacher did it to try and make your son feel included if she has this kind of rapport with the entire class. If she knows he has anxiety, she may have been trying to put him at ease.

You say your son has "issues" with her and feels that she is annoyed by him. Could it be that he is simply misreading her attempts to include him in her jokes? I would make it very clear to him that the teacher doesn't really find him annoying, it is just her sense of humour that she uses with all of her pupils. Although it is confusing for him, she is trying to treat him the same as everybody else. Try and focus on the idea that she is trying to build a positive relationship with him even if he is struggling to see it that way.

I'd never heard the joke before so took it literally, but as it's apparently a well known joke then it's probably as noble described

His behaviour plan had about sensory stuff. She made him remove it the first few lessons and got cross with him when he argued.

Unfortunately ds is quite blunt in his interactions which can be taken the wrong way and we are working on this.

He assumed she was joking but doesn't think her reaction to his reaction was a joke. I wasn't there so don't know which is why I was asking if she was likely to be joking or being serious.

I'll just monitor it and see if anything develops.

I don't mind the joking and ds likes good humour but I don't agree he should have to be subject of teasing and not respond to it just because the teaser is an adult.

I think if it was meant affectionately she'd have laughed when he sakd "which end?"

Hmm, either DS was saying it as a joke in which case the teacher was entitled to continue the jokey conversation; OR DS was being genuinely rude to her, in which case he was lucky not to get a detention. He can't really have it both ways, surely? He can joke with her, but she can't joke back?

It is the other way round, surely Olennas?