Sent a note with daughter and coat still got confiscated

[Lionness2020]

My daughter started in Year 7 BullersWood on Wed 6th Sept.
She came home after her first day excited to show me her new books and weekly planner. We sat down together to read through it, I had to sign parent/teacher contract and then we went on to read the school policies and rules.
Whilst reading I came to realize that now I need to buy my daughter a black coat! This isn't an issue....I will buy a black coat ( I just need some time to do this).
She left for school on Thursday with her current coat (purple I might add, I know its bright, but it was that or pink!) and I sent a note with her explaining the situation to giver to her teacher, my daughter got to the school gates and took her coat off and put it in her bag and never gave the note in I found out later that evening....my assumption here is that she was scared she may get disciplined or that it was a hot day and she didn't need a coat.
Come Friday morning, its raining and daughter decides she's going to wear the purple coat as it's waterproof (it was raining most of the day on Fri, I think i saw the sun come out around 3oClock), so again I wrote a note for her to hand to the teacher.
Now this is info I have managed to gather from my DD.......She was going into morning registration, as they were filing into class, the headteacher of Yr7 has stopped her about her coat (according to my daughter her office is opposite her form room). So, daughter says she has a note, hands it over, head of year reads it and say "how sweet, I will have to confiscate your coat and you can have it back at the end of the day, as it's breaking school rules".
I was absolutely astounded by this, I can't believe my daughter had no coat to wear during break/lunch on a cold/rainy day!
Where was the health, safety and well-being of my child?
Not a happy mum!
I will be making an appointment to see the headteacher.

I'm not saying that the teacher has failed, just that if you go into teaching with aspirations relating to education, helping kids etc, then spending your time enforcing pernickety rules must feel quite removed from that. Hence the feeling of failed in terms of intentions. Nothing wrong with uniform, but this example feels like rules for the sake of it.

Oh ok Caprianna. Where's the money for this higher pay coming from? And as for better working conditions... some of the things that deter people from being or remaining teachers are pretty much inherent parts of the job (dealing with kids who don't want to learn and who behave very badly). The rest of them are caused by governments who supposedly want to raise standards but actually do the opposite. I can't see any of that changing any time soon.

Yes Gruffalo you're right. It is annoying having to enforce pernickety uniform rules, especially when you're not in favour of uniform anyway. I don't think it's that easy to have uniform without being reasonably pernickety though tbh. However low the bar you set (in terms of amount of rules ir formality of uniform) kids will push the boundaries. That's what they do. And if you don't bother to enforce the rules, or impose a penalty for breaking them, there's not really any point having any at all. Having uniform rules but failing to enforce them tends to make kids think that you won't bother enforcing any of your rules - behaviour, homework etc.

That's exactly why I think uniform is a bad idea - you either end up having to be really harsh about something that's quite trivial, and waste teacher time doing it, and create reasons for disciplining kids, some of whom might otherwise be well-behaved. Or you don't bother enforcing it much, which makes the school look weak and ineffectual and encourages kids to disregard rules in general.

Parents do have a choice about which school they send their child to. If they seriously can't live with the rules at the school that their child attends then they can always look for a different one

In theory, that's true. in reality, most parents are limited by catchment areas, religious preferences, travel distance and public transport links. Plus, you tend to find that local schools follow each other in terms of uniform and rules.

I'd love a school that allowed my daughter to wear a coat when moving from class to class and had coat pegs in classrooms. Sadly, no such school in my local area exists. They all ban coats from being worn inside the building and none have enough lockers for all the children to have one.

I'd also like a school that accepted that children are individuals and allowed them to express that individuality in terms of hairstyles, colours, bags and coats etc. Again, no such schools exist.

We could, theoretically, go down the route of homeschooling, however as a single, working parent, that's hardly possible.

Don't bother buying a new one. Three kids and by the end of September was not a chance of them wearing a coat come rain or hail. A few years on and they are all still alive.

This reminds me of the pillock who bought his son trainers for school when said school categorically said NO trainers. Father arguing that they're fine and he will homeschool his son until school bend.

I hope they don't.

OP you should have sorted your act out before DD started school. It's not fair on her to put her in this situation.

So me PP's have said they don't agree with uniform.

Uniform is a social leveller.

With it all kids are brought together and you can't tell anyone's background giving children a chance to feel equal to others.
OP if you are sending a child to a new school you do need to read their uniform policy and it's a good idea if your child is also looking on the website to find out things for them self. Sorry but I think you were at fault for not providing a dark coloured coat.
I assume you had the school offer some months ago so you have had adequate time to look on their website to find out things like this.
Your note explained the situation but it's Senior school now not Primary and they enforce the rules more rigidly to ensure behaviour and discipline in the school. If there is not good discipline and behaviour learning can be affected during lessons.

Uniform is a social leveller

I don't agree, though accept that could be the theory behind it. At the end of the day, the kids all still know who's got what and the kids who don't have are still isolated (by not being allowed on the school trips or having the right calculator etc)

Brands of shoes, bags, coats, whether you're allowed on the school trips or have neatly styled, freshly cut hair and get new shoes when yours start appearing tatty are all wealth indicators that uniform does not address. Plus, once you get to secondary school age, the kids see each other outside of school. They know who has the Nike trainers and Jack and Wills (?) jackets.

I don't believe your child had to wait out in the rain during break and lunch. I work in a secondary school and the wet bell is rung if it's raining during a break. Sure, kids have to sometimes run between buildings/classes during unexpected downpours with no coat occasionally, but so do staff. There is no way the head will allow a meeting with you over this. Ring the head of year 7 if you really must, but I doubt it will help in any way.

I've always automatically assumed that a school coat is to be dark, preferably black, when it comes to secondary school (and sometimes primary), I thought it was standard? It certainly was when I was at school (I'm 35). I've never spotted a teen in a bright coat for school.

Hence the term 'school coat' and parents buying kids new coats for the new school term...

Frequency there is a choice though, it may not be a desirable choice but it's there. It may involve a lot more travel or an inadequate school but the choice is there. Most people can abide by the rules because in fact it's a better option than changing school.
My sons school is extremely strict about uniform, he doesn't like the rule and I don't necessarily understand it either. He is in a good school though and he is lucky to be there, he knows this so abides by all the rules and I fully support the school. The other option would be attending another local school where the pupils wear trainers and top to toe North Face, is in special measures and less than 30% of its pupils achieve good GCSE's.
Kids just need to suck it up and follow the rules for a few hours a day. There's loads of time for them to be individual and creative out of school (in school too believe it or not).

I don't think it's that easy to have uniform without being reasonably pernickety though tbh.
Simple uniform. Insist on it.
That's my school's approach and it works well.
It also helps that the school's approach to uniform has been the same for the last 20 years even though the uniform has evolved in that time.

Parents in our area know if you send your child to X school then that's what expected. Parental support makes a massive difference.

There's a tiny minority who try it on (last year's one for me was acrylic nails in the middle of term. Apparently i was body shaming the child and making her self conscious and didn't I know her aunty did them as a treat at the weekend. How could i be so disrespectful to her aunty! Plus don't i know how difficult it is to get the stuff to remove them.Thry were given 48 hours to remove them or face sanction. They removed them.)

Frequency I guess you don't work in education.
My school used to have so many absences on own clothes day that we stopped doing them. Pupils were distressed about coming in to school because they didn't have the same clothes as their peers or actually any suitable clothes at all. School council fully supported stopping them because it caused bullying and stress for pupils. I work in one of the most deprived areas of the country, but this happens everywhere. Uniform helps children who are socially disadvantaged, it may not solve the issue but it helps.

I don't understand what is wrong with acrylic nails either. Just how does the colour of your nails stop you from learning ? When I was a teen I was constantly experiencing with hair colour, makeup and clothes - all the time getting good results and my behaviour was good. I had an excellent relationship with my teachers who I can only remember encouraged us to express our individuality. Then I am used to the Scandinavian school system which is very different from the British.

Why could i predict that you would say that Caprianna.

Nobody who proposes uniform suggests that wearing or not wearing acrylic nails makes someone a better learner. But they aren't practical for DT or science or PE.

The "does it help them learn" argument is one of the most stupid arguments I hear (and I'm a teacher who has taught in a non uniform school and would do so again).

I could be an amazing teacher if i came in in a crop top, running shorts and trainers, but I don't. I equally wouldn't expect to see my mechanic in a short skirt and 3 inch heels or my GP in his shorts and T shirt.

If someone really requires clothing yo have any sense of being an individual, they aren't that individual.

Badhairday
I agree, no uniform day is a nightmare at my DC school. So glad its only a few times a year.

Strawberry

I also disagree that uniform is a social leveller.

British kids can tell just as well as German/French/Swiss/Italian kids who the poorest classmates are. As can teachers.

The stress put on low income families by schools' officious uniform regulations is horrendous. At this time of year Mumsnet has thread after thread started by low income parents struggling to meet them. Is this social levelling?

What is a social leveller is receiving an excellent education. Something on which uniform has absolutely no bearing whatsoever.

I don't get the 'prepare them for the workforce' argument either. AFAIK, countries without uniformed schools are not overrun with ill disciplined and sloppily dressed businesspeople. Nor (in my experience in three European countries at least) does non-uniform mean increased bullying and social exclusion in schools. Bullies will always find something to bully about. Uniform or not.

Having uniform rules but failing to enforce them tends to make kids think that you won't bother enforcing any of your rules - behaviour, homework etc.

This is why enforcing uniform should not be a priority in these straitened and chaotic times for education. Teachers should be allowed to use their limited resources of time, materials and energy to enforce rules that actually matter. Behaviour and homework matter.

To onlookers, strict uniform might present the illusion of a well-funded education system. But until, as a country, we're prepared to pay a bit more tax and insist on it being spent on education it will remain a facade. No wonder government is so keen on it.

Why are acrylic nails not practical for PE or science ? As many have mentioned there are very few countries who insist on school uniforms and presumably they also have PE etc
Uniforms encourage the rules are rules types who just like to enforce rules just because they can and often in petty ways.

I'm so glad my children's schools don't have ridiculous rules like this. I would have no respect for a school that valued looks above wellbeing.

And I went to see my GP last week and he was in....shorts and t-shirt. Private GP. No idea if that makes a difference as don't do NHS, but he is excellent!

You mean aside from the fact they are long and get in the way.

Friends of mine aren't allowed to wear thrm in their jobs for similar reasons.

You clearly think that kids should dress how they like when they like 'becasue it doesn't stop learning'. Positions like yours are the main reason i would be reluctant to get rid of uniform because even if there was a dress code, there's always people who are so unique and different and their offspring are so unique and individual thay they couldn't possibly follow the rules because rules might zap their awesomeness from them.

Some of the most quirky and individual peoplr I know understand that rules apply to them. I can't help but think people who rely on how they look to prove how unique and quirky they are aren't thay individual, they're just desperate to appear anti-establishment.

Yes if they are so long they get in the way I agree, but not all are.

Positions like mineThe same position as most schools globally. British schools are in the minority here.

Caprianna I completely see where you're coming from. It's a huge cultural difference.

And the girls have to leave the lesson every time there's a nail emergency?
Acrylic nails filed to a point are a menace in practical subjects.
I wish schools had simpler rules. Students should be dressed smartly and safely (certain piercings or shoes can be a risk) But as an ex teacher I couldn't care less what colour hair or nails students have. The issue is that when schools have rules they then have to enforce them. Otherwise it gives students the message that some rules can be ignored.