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Secondary education

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Original poster

Child not clever enough for grammar school- what do you do?

126 replies

BurnTheBlackSuit · 01/09/2017 09:07

Not my situation, but something that cropped up in a conversation with a friend who lives in Kent.

A child who is averagely clever and without intensive tutoring is unlikely to pass the 11+. Many/all of friends at school are doing going to sit 11+.

What do you do? Tell your child they are not clever enough for grammar school or let them sit the test knowing that they will fail?

OP posts:
EssexCat · 01/09/2017 09:10

It's why I'm very glad I don't live in a grammar region. I have one very bright child who would 100% have passed and one with mild SEN who 100% wouldn't have done. What would I do with them? Let them sit knowing full well they'd have a miserable time doing the exam and would fail anyway? Or tell them they'd fail before they even sat it? It's hard enough keeping his self esteem intact when he knows he's not as 'bright' as his siblings without actively confirming it at 10 and 3 weeks old.

Bnanda · 01/09/2017 09:12

I only know one person in this situation and they paid for private prep and intensive tuition.

LoniceraJaponica · 01/09/2017 09:15

And then what happened once they got into grammar school. Could the child keep up?

The grammar school system is so wrong, and I'm glad we don't have it either

Trills · 01/09/2017 09:16

Move somewhere with comprehensive schools?

Bnanda · 01/09/2017 09:16

I'm not sure. I know he wasn't in the top sets and it's been bloody stressful. I think they carried on tutoring him.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 01/09/2017 09:17

I have a friend planning to move away from Kent in the next couple of years for this reason.

Bnanda · 01/09/2017 09:17

Thinking about it, he must have done his gcses this year, I wonder how he did.

autumnboys · 01/09/2017 09:21

The only grammar round here has hundreds of applications per place. I said to the DC they were welcome to have a crack at it, but that the work they would need to do to pass the exam would mean dropping all other extra-curricular activities. They didn't want to. That spared me any conversations about the actual likelihood of them getting a place.

Gileswithachainsaw · 01/09/2017 09:21

Depends on the situation really x

I thought this thread night be about me for a second as in in a similar situation.

For me it's all bases in my school options. 11 plus for that one in 100 shot or the local school in SM and appalling results

If you don't try you don't know and alot cab happen between now and going to secondary. If they don't have the chance now they definitely won't get to go regardless of anything suddenly clicking or finally gaining some maturity etc

Unless you think the child is going to have some kind if freak out half way through I'd let your friend do what she thinks is best.

If I had a hope for a better school is not do it but that's just me

MrsBobtonTrent · 01/09/2017 09:22

I know two children heavily tutored through 11+ who were weeded out in year 8/9. They get good results because they select their pupils, not because the school itself is any good. We live in an 11+ area, but thankfully no grammars in our town, so plenty of bright children (who didn't want to commute elsewhere) at the local comp. But I understand the draw if it's a choice of local grammar or comp of doom.

Gileswithachainsaw · 01/09/2017 09:22

Random x fuck knows how thatbappeared. Bloody autocorrect

JoJoSM2 · 01/09/2017 09:28

Children already know if they are very clever or not - primary schools keep them on different tables etc so if you speak to them, they will give you a list of 'the clever ones' in their class.

I would also note that not all clever kids do well in exams and get in due to stress.

If I had an average child, to try their best and see what happens. And point out that there are so many applicants that it can go either way. I'd also make sure that there are some non-selective schools that they like and are likely to get in.

Trills · 01/09/2017 09:29

if it's a choice of local grammar or comp of doom.

It's not even really a "comp" in that case, is it?

It's a secondary modern. A school for people who don't get into grammar.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:36

I went to a comprehensive in a grammar school area. It was comprehensive because it didn't select on entry. The prior attainment on entry profile isn't dissimilar to a couple of schools I have taught in in fully comprehensive areas. My parents are strongly opposed to selection and I didn't take the 11+ for that reason. The 11+ isn't compulsory.

Peregrina · 01/09/2017 09:54

But that still didn't make it a Comprehensive FallenMadonna. Just because some schools in Comprehensive areas have skewed intakes which effectively gives them Sec Mod cohorts. You would need to look at the balance of high/middle/low achieving pupils to see how comprehensive it was. Or if the Grammar was 'super-selective' and only taking a small percentage of the most able pupils, then the local schools could still be properly comprehensive. This is not the case in Kent. Some children of GS ability will fail the 11+ and end up in the Sec Mod, but on the whole the more able children will have been creamed off.

But none of this helps the OP - if her friend has to stay in Kent she would need to try to find a better Sec Mod, because they are not all the same.

Bnanda · 01/09/2017 09:59

I think a comprehensive is a comprehensive isn't it?

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 10:11

I am saying that comprehensives in fully comprehensive areas also have skewed intakes. The word comprehensive Doesn't mean average ability intake. It means no selection on ability.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 10:11

I am well aware of the Kent system.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 10:16

And the child in question is not a "more able" child, and will presumably fit into the cohort of a comprehensive.

RandomMess · 01/09/2017 10:19

I think you visit all the schools and tell them that you don't think it's the right school for them, too pressured, school trips too expensive etc

skyzumarubble · 01/09/2017 10:20

I've got academically different twins and I dreading this if they stay at the same level over the next few years.

Peregrina · 01/09/2017 10:20

Yes, you are aware of the Kent system, but by having some children take the 11+, they are de facto being selected by ability. I think the Dept of Education describes the Kent Secondary Moderns as such.

This doesn't help the OP's friend. Perhaps let the child have some tutoring, which might be beneficial anyway if it concentrated on maths and English, and then look around for the best Sec Mod locally, just in case.

IStoleThisUsername · 01/09/2017 10:21

I have 2 bright children and let them choose what they wanted to do. Dd didn't want to take the test as she would be the only one of her friend group doing it and wanted to stay with her friends so goes to the local secondary school.

Ds took the test and passed but decided to go to the same school as his sister.

SecondaryQuandary · 01/09/2017 10:24

Kent normal grammars are not the same as those in non fully 11+ areas. They take the top 25%. The difficulty comes when you have a child in the top 30%.....

My DC missed one paper (out of three) by one point. This was probably reflective of their ability at the time they took the test.

This is key : as well as being an August birthday and making great progress in Y6 after the test, how do you know if you have a late developer on your hands?

My DC desperately wanted to go to the local grammar so we appealed and were successful. They start next week, and having not been intensively tutored it will be interesting to see where they sit in the class. I have a strong suspicion they won't be at the bottom.

At the end of the day, it depends on the child and the grammar and sec modern alternatives and which the parents feel will be most suitable for their child.

BertrandRussell · 01/09/2017 10:24

Well, according to Mumsnet wisdom, there is absolutely no reason for a child to be upset or have any sense of failure at all if they fail the 11+ and their friends pass. They will only feel like that if they are badly parented..............