It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

[Kazzyhoward]

DS is forecast grades 8 and 9 in his GCSEs across the board. He is wanting to take all 3 sciences and Maths at A level. These are the subjects he enjoys. At this stage (argh!), he has no clue about what career he wants to go into! School/teachers seem happy enough to let him do them with the usual warnings of them being hard subjects etc. Just wondering if any parents/teachers have experience of kids doing these 4 A levels and whether it's realistically feasible to get decent passes. My personal view is to run for the hills and choose just 3 A levels of a different mix, maybe one science, Maths, and a humanity or economics/business studies, but perhaps that would do him a great dis-service. Very difficult when he hasn't a clue about career nor what degree subject he'll take at uni.

Lonicera, you were clearly looking at different Medical schools than my daughter....

"At the university/med school open days we went to this year they stated that there was absolutely no point in taking more than 3 as they won't even look at them all. They even said that if one of the results was lower it would go against the student."

Birmingham

Normal offer is A*AA however

"Candidates studying four A Levels:
If all A Level subjects are examined for first time in Year 13, the offer will be AAAB (Biology and Chemistry must be at grade A)"

Barts Royal London interview requirements.

". Candidates will be expected to achieve or be predicted a minimum UCAS tariff of 144 points from the scoring Academic
component (A levels, IB, Pre-U etc.). So four A levels helps.

In fairness DD was looking at Universities that gave good weight to academics, as her UKCAT was not great. Plus having both maths and physics gives her more intercalation options.

Giraffe, interesting. Both DC seemed happy taking five, and in fairness the fifth was more practical so not much different to a child who keeps up high level music through sixth form. DD loved sixth form so was keen to extract every last minute from it by taking advantage of every opportunity. But then opted for a gap year and a complete break from academics. DS, and his peers have worked incredibly hard at University. Far harder than I ever did. (Same University,. same course.) Being used to a fairly heavy load at school has done him no harm. He has been surprised at how many of his peers from English state schools have self studied Further Maths, whether to AS or A2. But then he commented that a single lecture covered half the content of one of his A2 papers. So you end up having to do it at some point.

Yes we were

Hull York AAA including biology and chemistry, and must have AAA predictions. They strongly encourage applicants with a humanities or arts subject for the the third A level, and don't accept maths and further maths as distinct subjects for the purposes of offering 3 distinct A-Level subjects. There is no mention of 4 A levels.

Newcastle AAA including biology and/or chemistry, but need a grade 7 or above at GCSE in the other science that wasn't taken at A level. They specifically stated at the talk that they weren't interested in 4 subjects, and didn't pay much attention to personal statements.

We haven't had time to look at other medical schools as DD decided after visiting Warwick she didn't want to do bio med science after all, so we have had to cancel other open days and will have to start again.

She did a taster day in Leeds and will be doing one at Imperial college in September.

Lonicera, I also understand that studying three sciences at A level helps when it comes to BMAT. DD found her ease with maths helped with data questions during MMIs. There again I can see advantages in maintain breadth (and being able to write). She, by necessity, was aiming at those schools which gave good weighting to the PS. (Damn UKCAT - so much hangs on having a good day.)

Which does not mean you need any more than three. Just that there are lots of different sorts of medical careers, and different medical schools look for different things.

Simple really, if four A levels is not going to be a stretch and there are four subjects you enjoy, why not do them. If they will be, or you are trying to balance with other priorities, whether music, sport, gaming or clubbing, then don't.

What are MMIs?

Multiple mini interviews

Ah, right. I know that is how they interview for medical school. Where do you get examples of those type of questions from?

My son is doing A levels, he chose Geography and the three sciences. He is finding A levels much more difficult than GCSEs even though he got A*s in GCSEs. A levels are a big step up, his school recommend dropping one to concentrate on 3 A levels but you can timetable in 4 A levels if you want to do 4. However most Universities only require 3 good grades so I see why the school recommend dropping one after AS to dedicate more time on three. My son decided to drop Chemistry as he found that quite hard at AS level. He still has another year left so hopefully will do okay in the other 3 which he does find easier subjects. Wishing your son well in his choices.

DD's chemistry teacher said that this year's AS level was harder than the A level. She is hoping that the grade boundaries will be lower.

I call them A2s as shorthand Dangling, I'm not too bothered about the correct new terminology provided it saves me typing letters. I think people get the gist.

noble your school clearly advised those students badly then, if they're weak enough to be on the cusp of pass/fail but are still taking four.

Starting 4 was totally normal, goodbye, lots of schools are advising different things as the new system beds in. And of course we can't all see the future.

The PP who mentioned studying the 'extra' A level(s) for interest and because the extra subject will be useful to have studied once at university has it right.

A levels should not be only about university entrance. Having that extra course knowledge can make a difference especially in the first year of a degree. Three sciences plus maths is IMO a sensible combination for a STEM oriented student. It keeps all the science doors open until the student knows the direction they want to take.

Yes Gnome. DS1 took History purely for enjoyment and because the teaching of it was especially good at his school (obviously that was partly why he enjoyed it at GCSE!). Enjoyment is necessary but sufficient without a need for utility later on.

That's interesting Gnome. DD couldn't wait to drop psychology because she found it so boring, and the workload was immense, which isn't helping with the tiredness. (I mentioned upthread that she is being assessed for CFS)

noble I'm not clear what point you're making: did this struggling student start with four as per your school's model, and then continue to do four, struggling, against the school's advice?

But yes, as I said earlier, school's are still finding their way and I'm almost certain the option of starting four and dropping one will soon be dropped as an option in state schools because of the financial and logistical problems it throws up. We've already seen schools' dithering about whether or not to allow uncoupled ASs to be taken and predictably the trend seems to be to abandon ASs altogether. Not having a different fourth subject seems a bit of a shame but I don't get the model at Bert's DSs grammar which is to have DC drop a subject at Christmas or Easter although they must have thought it through, or be better funded than the grammars I know.

Advice can be given, it isn't always taken.

We continued with the uncoupled AS to start with for a variety of reasons (including Oxbridge liked 'real' grades rather than predictions). Not entering an external exam in year 12 will of course save a LOT of money!

I'm surprised that DD's school still did AS exams this year then. Their finances are really dire. The school is one of the most underfunded in the country.

I think what we will see is what happened when they got rid of January modules. Loads of kids failed those and got a kick up the backside to do some actual work. When they were replaced with internal exams failure was written off as 'I didn't revise properly for them because they were just mocks', I'll try harder for the real things (honest).

That's interesting noble. At DD's school anyone getting less than 3 Ds will not be able to progress into year 13.

I am enjoying your contributions BTW. It is good to get a teacher's view.

@noblegiraffe - same at our place. January modules were just what some of ours needed. We will replace AS with internal exams but they won't take them as seriously (I didn't!). Our current year 12s need to get certain grades to continue, I'm not sure what we will do next year. Still, I'll be on mat leave for that.

Sorry, but your reasoning is illogical.

If STEM subjects are what he is good at and interested in, they're less 'hard' to him than languages or humanities. There's also quite an overlap in maths/physics and Physics/Chemistry so they complement each other and less content than three unrelated subjects.

All three science A-Levels plus maths will open so many doors for him, is he interested in dentistry, medicine or being a vet at all?

The only one out of your list that may be useful if it is at all interested and if it is from science/mathematical point of view, is economics instead of maybe biology because the others fit together better, if perhaps he has any interest i banking or the civil service.

"If STEM subjects are what he is good at and interested in, they're less 'hard' to him than languages or humanities. There's also quite an overlap in maths/physics and Physics/Chemistry so they complement each other and less content than three unrelated subjects."

Maybe that's why one of the med schools we looked at encourage students to take a humanities or arts subject along with two science subjects, because they are more of a stretch?

@LoniceraJaponica - good point. Four years ago the second most common degree destination for our English Literature classes after English was Medicine. An essay based subject can be handy for the ethics element of the BMAT.
However, what is vitally important for Medicine is to get the best grades you can. That might mean 3 or 4, STEM or a mixture. Advice will vary as students vary.

Any student struggling as much as you imply needs to be told noble, not advised.

The BMAT is marked differently now than it used to be. Maths and further maths much more crucial than essay writing.