It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

[Kazzyhoward]

DS is forecast grades 8 and 9 in his GCSEs across the board. He is wanting to take all 3 sciences and Maths at A level. These are the subjects he enjoys. At this stage (argh!), he has no clue about what career he wants to go into! School/teachers seem happy enough to let him do them with the usual warnings of them being hard subjects etc. Just wondering if any parents/teachers have experience of kids doing these 4 A levels and whether it's realistically feasible to get decent passes. My personal view is to run for the hills and choose just 3 A levels of a different mix, maybe one science, Maths, and a humanity or economics/business studies, but perhaps that would do him a great dis-service. Very difficult when he hasn't a clue about career nor what degree subject he'll take at uni.

I'm surprised that a sixth form would find it financially viable to staff and resource an A level course when they give the entire cohort the requirement to drop out of it mid way through.

I don't see that it is viable except initially, to test the water Cauliflower.

Actually I disagree with you there Goodbyestranger. My DDs went to a comp and there are disadvantages compared to a couple of friends who went private. The comp had much bigger classes and less support. There was also a wider range of ability in the classes so the teachers had to help those on target for low grades as well as the higher ability ones. DD2 self studied further maths at AS level as school wouldn't run the class before they didn't have sufficient numbers to provide the budget for it.

I was disagreeing with the comment on the type of school being irrelevant!

hellsbells how did your ds do in his futher maths A level?
My ds is thinking of doing this for the same reason.

She did fine. She did it in year 13 so had already done AS maths and we clubbed together with 4 other parents to get them a private tutor who did a group session for an hour a week.

She has just finished her first year at university and although she didn't have to have further maths, she says she would have found the first year more difficult without it.

if the school thinks he can handle it I would go for it - he can always drop one en route. If he's capable I don't see the point of doing economics / business studies..

goodbyestranger Sat 01-Apr-17 10:09:25
Yes, while I don't mind whether DD gets 9s or not, I do have faith in the school's ability to predict, based on the fact that they've been remarkably accurate with my seven older DC who offer quite a good tester group in all sorts of respects smile.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2887164-DfE-Data-Cruncher-predicts-number-of-students-who-will-get-straight-9s?reverse=1

goodbyestranger Wed 09-Aug-17 13:41:09
All my other DC did three A2 not four and disposition wise, that suited them fine (although they have all also worked in a job and had a social life etc.). I think my last DC, DD4, might prefer four A2 and again, it's not about ability, simply that she's likely not to be keen to drop down to three - completely her call.

Goodbyestranger - 8 dc in April down to 4 dc in August.... really?!!!

Blanket surely she is saying 8 kids in April, and her youngest is the fourth daughter in August. So presumably 4 sons also?

Maybe....

4 girls, 4 boys. All at a super selective, 7,(so far) at/were at Oxford.. Just a perfectly normal, everyday family. Nothing to see here.......

RedSandYellowSand yes exactly right: DD1 1990, DD2 1991, DD3 1993, DS1 1994, DS2 1995, DS3 1997, DS4 1999, DD4 2002 for general information, if anyone cares (the stalking suggests they do....).

hellsbells there are vast funding differences between the state and private sector which naturally affect outcomes but I don't honestly think it affects the ability of individual DC to manage four as opposed to three A2. My DS was taught in very large classes for his subjects (Biology, Chemistry and especially History were extremely popular choices at his school, Physics slightly less so). You don't get smaller class sizes at state grammars, so there's no advantage there - funding issues are the same and are having exactly the same effect across the whole state sector.

If a DC with good time management skills and a calm approach is likely to get B grades in three subjects at A2 in whatever school scenario then I reckon they're as likely to get B grades in four, ditto those capable of A*. I don't buy this line about 'better to get three good grades than four bad ones', it's far too trite. I do however believe that three A2s are sufficient and that there's only a point doing four if the DC really doesn't want to drop the fourth, because the DC enjoys that subject so much.

Well for DS , 3 better grades actually was better than trying to do 4 - he dropped one ( Maths) ( not AS - he did Pre U so discussion with school) - But his aspiration was a Humanities degree - and not PPE. So it was fine. What I would say though is I like this - good time management skills and a calm approach - Ds is dyslexic and this has carried him through a lot.

DS going into 3rd ( final) Yr so can I caveat with thus far - not that anyone is bothered apart from me

Well I do buy the 3 good grades is better than 4 less good ones, but I have a less than perfect child who doesn't have good time management skills, and who is currently being assessed for CFS. So for her, dropping the really time heavy A level has been a massively important step.

No university that we have looked at is interested in 4 A levels, and they all take the same "trite" view that 3 good grades are better.

You are very fortunate goodbye to have such motivated, academically bright children.

I think with the changes to curriculum and 6th form funding we may see a move back to mainly 3 with 4 as an exception (we will still have students who do an 'extra' if they can cope). Interestingly extras have often been closely linked or an extra curricular activity. Our top mathematicians do Maths and Further Maths together (with some lunchtime sessions). I had some success with the soon to be defunct Creative Writing A Level in an hour a week (with students who were writing for fun anyway so the coursework wasn't a chore to be completed). I think the way the cuts are heading more and more schools will drop 4 timetabled A levels. More concerning are the local schools who are dropping 'expensive' subjects like Technology and Music.

Goodbyestranger- I am sorry if you feel stalked.

But you really must stop your using your own exceptional family as if they are examples of what most of the rest of us can aspire to. It is wonderful that your children can stroll to their local super selective school, and that so far 7 of them have gone from there to Oxford. I am in awe of their, and, by extension, your achievements. But, without that context, people are likely to be worried by your comments on what is doable- and might question the choices their more usual children have made. Of course your dd can do walk 4 A levels, an EPQ, have a riotous social life and a part time job. But most can't. And it is frankly irresponsible to suggest they can.

Thank you Bertrand. Your post echoes how I feel, and somehow validates my experience. Having 7 exceptionally bright children and normalising how clever they are has made me feel a little "where have I gone wrong".

None of DD's friends are as clever or well accomplished as them. Maybe it is me who lives in the real world.

Please don't forget that sixth form is also about growing up and having a good time! They start driving, drinking, going out, partying, clubbing, having relationships etc. I think doing A levels as they are turning 18 is not compatible really! I wish they either did them a year earlier or a year later as year 13 particularly is full of distractions.

Shall we just not give Goodbye a hard time because she has bright children?
Some do some don't -

Anyway thinking of starting a thread re " what do you do after finals ? " Ds was a little down yesterday and ( my opinion) a bit to do with amount of work combined with " what do I do next ?" ( not a vocational degree )

would appreciate views from those who have DCs later in their university career - Any good ?
Will probably give it a go anyway

Both mine took five. DD managed this despite starting a new schools in sixth form, having very low processing speeds, not taking double maths, being a sports captain and prefect, having two EC activities at County/regional level, maintaining weekly volunteering through Y13 and plenty more besides. Both also had good social lives, and DS managed plenty of gaming. DD did not

There were advantaged and disadvantages.

I think you need to:

1. not be a perfectionist. Good enough is good enough. And get homework done quickly and without fuss.

1. Have good teaching, a good memory and really listen in class so you pick things up and retain as you go along.

1. Taking science subjects helps, though DS managed 2 essay subjects.

1. Have friends doing the same, so it feels normal. Both DC often met up with friends to do homework first and then go out.

Plus points were:

1. Lots of variety, great if you enjoy your subjects.

1. Flexibility. What you think you like at 16 can be different to what you like at 18. DD in particular found she preferred maths and physics at A level. DS discovered he did enjoy maths more than he had expected but not enjoy history. This means a wider choice of degree. DD who will be studying medicine, is thinking of intercalating to study medical engineering. DS is on a course which did not count Further Maths in offers, but he is very glad he had it.

1. A wider skill set. Both did quite a practical (60% course work) A level. Academically softer but it involved a lot of practical problem solving. Ditto the scope to take a humanity or in DDs case, maths.

1. Reduced risk. DD had a nasty D&V virus before one A level. She sat the exam dosed up to the eye balls and had to leave early. She was calm, did her best and wound up with an A rather than the predicted A*. I don't think she would have been as calm if it had really counted. There is distinct advantage at exam time to be able to have a bad paper and not feel your University place has gone.

1. Preparation for University. DS has had to work far harder at University, DD expects to do the same. If you are used to doing more at school the transition should be easier.

1. University offers. Maybe. DS still got three rejections. That said it must have helped that he was able to offer a good combination including double maths and a humanity. My guess is that despite her SpLD evidence that DD could cope with a heavy load did her no harm.

Disadvantages were:

1. Fewer free periods. DD had none at all, even though she was at a private school with longer days and Saturday morning school. She was astonished when friends told her how much free time they got at a nearby state school taking three A levels.

1. Log jams. DD had to hand in three courseworks in the same week that she had three interviews. (Yes, I should have added organisation as a key requirement!) The exam timetable was also pretty tedious, and did not allow for much last minute revision.

1. Some impact on grades. I don't think DS was affected. DD missed the grade above in three subjects by a single UMS. Perhaps only taking three might have altered this, perhaps not, but again it meant that the B did not matter. They tend not to know what grades friends got, but both have close friends who achieved 5A*s, both of whom had social lives and achieved in other areas as well.

I'm not giving goodbye a hard time. I am delighted she has very bright children. I am just pointing out that it is a bit tedious that she seems to need to pretend she doesn't.

Yes, my dd is just about to start her final year at a university in a subject that couldn't be less vocational if it tried. She is periodically very anxious about what happens next....I am encouraging her to go to the careers service and start looking at "Sits Vac" pages, but at the moment she is preferring to panic..........

Lonicera it would be completely absurd if participation on MN threads on education were restricted only to those absolutely in the middle of the ability band with no particular extra curricular talents. Bert has a habit of extolling the brilliance of my DC without having a clue about them or any of the challenges they might have faced. She has adopted her own version of my family's life which happens to be extremely wide of the mark. It's quite funny actually, but reflects interestingly on her rather than me. My DC are very normal, but on the bright rather than brilliant side with the good fortune of having a good co-ed grammar school on the door which has served them well. Nothing warranting massive hyperbole there.

Thank you Basilisk, as usual :)

Bert you always give me a hard time, about everything! I think I should be allowed to know my DC rather better than you, including an awareness of the difficult times - which I don't tend to post about. MN has been very useful to me in that regard; extremely informative.