It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

[Kazzyhoward]

DS is forecast grades 8 and 9 in his GCSEs across the board. He is wanting to take all 3 sciences and Maths at A level. These are the subjects he enjoys. At this stage (argh!), he has no clue about what career he wants to go into! School/teachers seem happy enough to let him do them with the usual warnings of them being hard subjects etc. Just wondering if any parents/teachers have experience of kids doing these 4 A levels and whether it's realistically feasible to get decent passes. My personal view is to run for the hills and choose just 3 A levels of a different mix, maybe one science, Maths, and a humanity or economics/business studies, but perhaps that would do him a great dis-service. Very difficult when he hasn't a clue about career nor what degree subject he'll take at uni.

Oh dear @LadyinCement! He would certainly have got congratulations at least from our place.

Oh, and to throw in some "vintage" experience, in my day you only did three A Levels and if you struggled/didn't like one it was tough luck. Much better to start four and have one to play with. My German teacher left after two terms and the school couldn't find a replacement. We had to teach ourselves! These days parents would be up in arms or demand the right to change A Level, but back in the 80s it was Too Bad.

Can anyone answer my question about average A level grades? Clearly most mumsnetters have very bright children and don't know any with average capabilities.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted on a tbread where posters children only take 4 A levels and never get less than As.

Slinks off quietly

Lonicera you're probably best googling, there should be stats somewhere but they might not apply to the new Alevels

I did the 4, almost 30 years ago, now. Tried not to be disappointed that I only managed a B in physics, but was pleased with the distinction in the biology special paper.

There was more overlap then than now but it still took a fair bit of discipline to keep up with the workload.

I havnt looked in detail on my phone screen, but the stats are here don't know the source, so no idea of accuracy.

But I'd say the mode is B/C. Average is around a B or C. Median is Similar.

Interestingly, "hard" subjects (maths,chemistry, german) seem to get more A grades than others subjects. Only those good at the subject take them?? ??

Irish and "other languages" also seem to do rather well. I wonder if that is to do with native speakers taking them as per GCSE?? Certainly DH got an extra GCSE with a couple of Saturday morning revision classes as a native "other language" speaker.
If anyone with better stats (or screen!) wants to contradict my summary, I'd go with their answer!

Certainly the majority of our students who continue to take languages into year 13 are natural linguists (or sometimes bilingual due to family background). They have a reputation as difficult subjects and that puts a lot of people off. The same is true of Maths and Physics I would say. It would be interesting to know how many start the courses against how many finish. Our 'weaker' students often take one or both of our 'new' (only taught at A Level) subjects Classical Civilisation and Economics. They tend to have the widest range of grades. Totally anecdotal though.

The 80s feel like a whole other (rather cold and heartless!) world in education terms!
OP: if your ds achieves his predicted grades it is feasible to do 4 STEM A levels. On the other hand, he might consider doing three and an EPQ, which would give him a bit of freedom to choose a project that could look good when he writes his personal statement and take a little bit off the exam pressures in Y13. Three would be much better if his actual grades aren't quite as predicted.
Sometimes advice is bizarre even if well intentioned. I know one able mathematician who applied to his local sixth form college to do maths, further maths and physics and came home saying they'd advised business studies instead of physics because 'physics is hard'. Not great advice to someone who is good at physics and enjoys it but hates writing essays! His mum had to phone up and sort them out.

There's a bunch of interesting info about percentages of students with each grade at GCSE who progress to AS level, and what percentage progress to A-level here:

Unfortunately it's from 2012, but there doesn't seem to be more up to date data.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/183942/DFE-RR195.pdf

Interesting. Thanks for that @noblegiraffe.

I was just talking about this with a chum. Her daughter's school has decided 3 A levels only, whilst her son's goes for 4, with a minority of children dropping one (it must feel harder to do that now only A2). Both highly selective london day schools.

I am quite surprised by the difference , and wonder whether there are more changes to shake out.

Quite Donna. Bert the fact that my DC go to one of the state grammars dotted around the country, just as your own DC did, doesn't put their educational privilege on a par with the top independents, largely because the financial background both at school and at home is vastly different. I've no idea why you think their experience is not perfectly normal. They are in fact all incredibly normal, thankfully. So I think their experience is as valid as the next MN DC.

Don't any of the posters on here children go to bog standard comprehensive schools?

I have had one at a grammar school and one at a secondary modern, Lonicera, so I sort of count for half!

Goodbyestranger- I do think your idea of "normal" is a little skewed!

Agreed @BertrandRussell. We offer Latin and Ancient Greek. That isn't 'normal' for a state school!

@LoniceraJaponica - I'm sure many do! Most areas don't have grammar schools and most people can't afford private. There are a lot of us in the South East it seems (and we have quite a few grammars).

Mine go to a leafy comprehensive (literally - it's split either side of a park!)
Anyway, just looked at their guidelines for 2027/18 entry to sixth form and they are offering the chance to do 4 A levels if students get 8 or more GCSEs grades 7-9 or equivalent (must include English and maths). The requirements to do 3 and an EPQ are pretty high as well.

I don't know what the criteria for starting with 4 subjects is at DD's school. I know that one of her friends who got mostly Bs and Cs was only allowed to do 3, but DD was told to do 4 as she got mostly As and A*s (and 2 Bs).

I agree that it is a good idea to start with 4 because often the student finds that the subject they think they will love is their least favourite subject. In this case it is psychology at DD's school.

I agree with a pp that often it is the least able who take up subjects that they didn't take at GCSE - psychology and government and politics. I suspect that these have the highest dropout rates.

Don't any of the posters on here children go to bog standard comprehensive schools?

Er, ten posts above yours I said ds did. And did 4 A Levels.

Languages are hard. And indeed it is off-putting if quite a few of one's classmates are native speakers. Ds considered doing French A Level but a) the speaking component was too big for him (he would have preferred the 80s when there was a big literature section and not much need to actually say anything out loud!) and b) several of his peers have French mothers and he felt he was on a hiding to nothing if his "rivals" in the A Level stakes were bilingual or came from private schools where reputedly mfl are taught more stringently. Looking at the A Level statistics at ds's school when 4 ASs were the norm, French was the most AS likely to be dropped.

At the 6th form ds hopes to go to, they all start doing 4, but drop 1, except in very exceptional circumstances, at either Christmas or Easter. They have to do an EPQ and some sort of volunteering work.

At DS's selective private school they are now all starting 4 or 3 plus an EPQ. In very rare cases they may be allowed 4 plus an EPQ but have been told that for medicine they don't care about EPQs, just the A-levels. If they've started 4, they'll take internal exams in all at the end of the lower sixth and then decide which 3 to take on to A-level on the basis of their year's study and their exam results.

It would be madness for my DC to go to anything other than the grammar. It's the nearest school by some way to the house I've lived in for forty years. Why would I inconvenience myself and them by travelling several extra miles each day to go to the bog standard comp. So for us, it's completely normal. Anything else would be odd.

There's an obvious financial problem for state schools (including grammars) in allowing students to drop a fourth, and a timetabling/ staffing one too. Schools are just finding their way even now so I'd expect there to be more rigidity appearing in the state sector, with three becoming the norm from the outset and four allowed as an exception.

My DC go to a bog standard comprehensive. The school has no sixth form, so my eldest will be changing schools to do A levels at another bog-standard comprehensive. From September, he will have to get the 7.15 bus, returning at 5.30 make the trip into the city.

He will do the 'easy' 4 A level combination of maths, further maths, physics and chemistry. He was easily dissuaded from doing computer science as a 5th A level (too much work in total/ poor syllabus/ not needed for a degree in Computer Science).

The type of school is irrelevant to the amount of work required to cover four A2s and an EPQ. It's a complete red herring introduced to imply that somehow the work load is less/ easier if you go to a grammar or an indie. It isn't, the specifications and grade boundaries are identical and it's equally hard, or at least equal volume. I guess it's arguable that really well off DC tend on the whole to do less paid employment but other than that, the four A2/ three A2 argument is equal.