It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

[Kazzyhoward]

DS is forecast grades 8 and 9 in his GCSEs across the board. He is wanting to take all 3 sciences and Maths at A level. These are the subjects he enjoys. At this stage (argh!), he has no clue about what career he wants to go into! School/teachers seem happy enough to let him do them with the usual warnings of them being hard subjects etc. Just wondering if any parents/teachers have experience of kids doing these 4 A levels and whether it's realistically feasible to get decent passes. My personal view is to run for the hills and choose just 3 A levels of a different mix, maybe one science, Maths, and a humanity or economics/business studies, but perhaps that would do him a great dis-service. Very difficult when he hasn't a clue about career nor what degree subject he'll take at uni.

Universities only require 3 grades, so any extra subjects would be studied for the pure enjoyment. Let him have a go - they are all STEM subjects, so there will be interdisciplinary skills at work which should make it a lot easier than taking a wider range of subjects and including humanities.

Thanks for so many helpful comments and advice. All passed on to my son.

I was only referring to them as "hard" as I've seen so many comments to that effect on these and other forums, so perhaps that's not the case after all. So if they're basically all roughly equal in terms of difficulty and work required, then fair enough.

As for taking 4, that's simply because he can't choose just 3 subjects as he has no idea about which degree or which career to choose, so wants to keep his options as open as possible. He will drop 1 if it turns out the workload is too much or if he just doesn't like the subject and decides that closes a door on a particular career choice.

Lonicera I disagree with that as a generalization. As I said, my DS did four A2 plus an EPQ (and GS and Critical Thinking, but those were side issues) and had a job and a very good social life. He was absolutely fine, not in the least stressed as far as I could make out, and got A* in everything. Some DC are fine with it, but it's more about organization and time management and laid backness than brilliance. MY DS certainly didn't need History for his Medicine application but he really enjoyed the subject and the teaching of it at his particular school, so he was keen to keep it on. There's no hard and fast rule that it will burn DC out.

goodbyestranger from a recent post your DCs' school did their A levels over 3 years. That must have helped timewise?

referring back to previous years doesn't have much bearing going forward with the new A Levels.

OhYou not many people appear to be getting that at all.

goodbyestranger The key word here is "did", not "is currently doing".

OhYouBadKitten is right. The A level syllabuses and exams have changed. All of DD's A levels are linear so her AS results don't count towards the final mark. I believe that next year all subjects will be linear, but I'm happy to be corrected.

All of her friends are finding A levels hard and very stressful and really struggled in year 12 - some of whom achieved all As and A*s at GCSE.

sendsummer yes that's correct about the three year sixth form although the theory was always better than the practice in that respect. Exams had to be completed over two years not three to satisfy university requirements and Y11 was intended for 'enrichment'. DS4 has just taken linear A levels and I don't see any difference myself, not in terms of the time required - obviously the specifications are different. People always complain in 'guinea pig' years, not always with justification, often simply because it's change.

So no Lonicera, I don't actually believe the word is that key, given what I've seen from my own DC doing a variety of sixth form models (both two and three year) and a variety of specifications.

I would agree that the new linear do not seem to require more time to cover the syllabus, the difference is in the amount of material that has to be retained for exams.
It is very true that some DCs are very time effective as well as successful with their studying and this will be apparent from the GCSE years. IMO if a DC is working late in the evening during GCSEs or gets stressed by deadlines I would not be encouraging more than 3 A levels even if it is possible particularly for humanities or arts A levels.

I was one of 5 in my all-girls school year to do 4 science-and-maths A-levels. Admittedly this was a while ago but if he is bright and genuinely interested in all 4 subjects then he should go for it. If he isn't really so keen on one it is better to drop it - no one is very likely to get a good grade in a subject that they don't particularly enjoy. As someone already said there is a huge overlap between maths and physics so if doing one you might as well do both.

sendsummer which A level subject do you teach? That is not what we have found at all re: covering the syllabus.

Clearly, all teenagers are different. DD is currently being assessed for CFS, which is why 4 A levels, an EPQ and a part time job would be too much of a stretch for her. She took 4 subjects up to the end of year 12 and has really struggled with the workload, particularly with psychology as it took up far more of her time than her other subjects (plus she found it far less interesting than she thought she would).

Can I just say, as a point of information, that goodbyestranger's children are exceptionally bright. Please don't take her/their experience as the norm.

Have you taught them, Bertrand?

No, cauliflower. But I have been on many threads with her.

"Can I just say, as a point of information, that goodbyestranger's children are exceptionally bright. Please don't take her/their experience as the norm"

That is reassuring. I know a lot of teenagers and don't know any who did 4 A levels, plus an EPQ, plus a part time job and achieved all A/A*. Let alone achieve anything near that without any kind of stress or meltdowns.

The problem is you get one or two parents who make this kind of achievement sound like the norm and it makes you feel sad for your own children for whom it isn't that easy.

DD goes to a comprehensive school and therefore has friends who are clever and some who are not so clever. Some of her friends have been getting Ds, Es and Us in year 12, and this constant barrage of kids getting As and A*s on here and in the media creates the impression that very few students actually achieve less than that.

I would be interested to know what actual mean, median and mode A level grades are.

Bert my point was precisely that it's about disposition, not brilliance (and not that my DC are brilliant).

All my other DC did three A2 not four and disposition wise, that suited them fine (although they have all also worked in a job and had a social life etc.). I think my last DC, DD4, might prefer four A2 and again, it's not about ability, simply that she's likely not to be keen to drop down to three - completely her call.

Cauliflower I don't, just my observation (hence the use of the word 'seem') that from DCs' and friends'schools there were no more problems in completing the new A level syllabuses in plenty of time than the old ones although some of the material was reportedly slightly tougher and the teachers less certain. This is with a range of subjects including STEM. I can quite believe that it might vary depending on the subjects, teachers and ability range.

Don't be disingenuous, goodbyestranger.

Bert I don't know what you mean, although it is true that I've been on enough threads with you for me to know that you frequently draw the wrong conclusions from false premises. There's nothing remotely disingenuous in what I've posted - I couldn't be bothered to waste my time tbh - if you'd like to explain your confusion then I'll cheerily clear it up (although I'm on the point of departing for a round of gold in the Scottish sunshine, so it might have to wait a wee while).

I mean round of golf, which I doubt will be a round of gold although I do hope for one or two birdies :)

Goodbystranger-it's your implication that you have/have had perfectly average children at a perfectly average local school....

@LoniceraJaponica I on the other hand know approximately 50 students who do at least 4 A2 plus EPQ and extra curricular and many hold down jobs as well. But, I am well aware that it is because of my type of school.
The suggested 4 is fine. I often joke that a lot of our students with lots of A Levels have just done lots of Maths (Maths, Further Maths, Physics)! It's rarer, although not unheard of, for students to have done a clutch of humanities A Levels (sometimes musicians who are able to do it as an 'extra' for instance). The student I taught who had the toughest work load was doing: English Literature, Spanish, French and German. I've been a Year 12 tutor and it does seem that MFL are particularly tough. The Sciences on the other hand go together and often over lap. I say, go for it. An A Level can be dropped. I dropped Biology

Shameless brag here (disclaimer: no proud grandparents to be pleased for him!): ds did 4 A Levels (humanities + Maths), had a Saturday job, went to a bog-standard comp... and got A* in everything. Oh, and missed practically half the first year with investigations for Crohn's disease.

Ds's friends who did subjects like OP's ds is considering did well, too. If you do Maths then Further Maths is more of the same (but harder!) and an obvious choice if you're a Maths whizz.

Btw, off topic but remembering all the threads where dcs are not rewarded for academic talent - ds did not receive a word of congrats from the school on his A Level results. And he discovered that he didn't even meet the cut for the school leavers' awards in September! But I suppose this was the place that told assembled parents at the university information evening that the University of the South West was equal to Oxbridge...