It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

[Kazzyhoward]

DS is forecast grades 8 and 9 in his GCSEs across the board. He is wanting to take all 3 sciences and Maths at A level. These are the subjects he enjoys. At this stage (argh!), he has no clue about what career he wants to go into! School/teachers seem happy enough to let him do them with the usual warnings of them being hard subjects etc. Just wondering if any parents/teachers have experience of kids doing these 4 A levels and whether it's realistically feasible to get decent passes. My personal view is to run for the hills and choose just 3 A levels of a different mix, maybe one science, Maths, and a humanity or economics/business studies, but perhaps that would do him a great dis-service. Very difficult when he hasn't a clue about career nor what degree subject he'll take at uni.

Op, I think this will be a problem for quite a few 16 year olds now they are only being encouraged to do 3 A levels due to the changes. My DD couldn't decide which direction she wanted to go in at 16 so did all 3 sciences and maths in year 12. She has a lot of pressure from school to drop 1 at the end of the year. It did focus her on making the decision of what degree she wanted to do and dropped biology (but also decided to do AS further maths in year 13). Deciding to drop either biology or physics does then start to close doors on what degree/career path to follow. But as pointed out by previous posters, with the changes to content and most exams being done at the end of year 13, it will be more difficult to do 4 subjects.
I personally think let your DS start off with the 4 he wants to do but let him know he can drop one at any time.

It's interesting that "hard" seems to be synonymous with "science and maths"

I spotted that too Bertrand. I love science and maths and am good at them, so for me it was a no brainer to choose them at A level. I would have found out much, much more difficult to have to write essays, they're much more subjective. I like correct answers, with established methods to get to those answers.

There are lots of young people who are just like me in that they are better at maths and sciences than wordy subjects. I don't think it does anybody any favours to assume maths and science are any harder than any other A levels. Yes, the new A levels are harder than they have been in the recent past, but that's the same with every subject, not just science and maths.

I counted DS1's History as 'hard' Bertrand, hence the post. He didn't do either Maths or Further Maths.

In fact I also think Art, which DD2 did as one of three A2s, is 'hard'. but I'm no doubt in the minority on that one :)

People are much more impressed by kids being good at science and maths than, say, English or History. I suspect it's because most of us think that with a bit of effort we could do those subjects too (after all, it's only reading and writing, and we can all do that!) but maths and science? That's sort of magic thinking.............

Just spotted my mistake, sorry - DS1 did History, Biology, Chemistry and Physics, not Maths. Getting my DC muddled, easily done :)

Bertrand you can count me out on that one (about rating maths and science higher than humanities or arts).

I'm much more impressed by art than I am by maths or science. Mainly because I can barely draw circles with compasses, so creating something beautiful seems like magic to me. Also because I've seen how much work goes into art subjects (I'm including things like textiles and photography) in order to get a decent grade at A level.

Goodbyestranger, when was doing my A-levels, art was definitely one of the hardest ones. It seemed to take up huge amounts of time and effort, and the art people seemed to spend all their "free" time catching up on art stuff. At university, chemistry seemed to be the equivalently time-consuming subject.

"Research by academics at Durham University, however, suggests that there are some real discrepancies. By comparing A-level results between subjects, the researchers found that it appeared to be harder to get higher grades in maths, the sciences and modern languages, for example, than in business studies, drama and English."

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9948905/Are-some-A-level-subjects-better-than-others.html

Noble - Have you read the original research the article refers to...? Interestingly by their measurement General Studies comes out harder than all STEM subjects.... I think that's not true, but the research ch methods doesn't really account for effort or forced subjects. It makes interesting reading nonetheless.

While 4 subjects aren't needed for university applications the extra subject can be useful of the OP's DS does decide on a sciences degree.

DD is doing maths, FM, physics and chemistry. While the FM isn't necessary it will be helpful in her uni course.

Really bbpp

DD is starting year 13 and has been doing the new syllabus A levels where the AS doesn't count towards the final exams. She achieved mostly A*s and As at GCSE and is finding A levels hard.

She has been visiting medical schools and they have all said don't bother doing 4 A levels they are only interested in 3. She also looked at bio med degrees and was told the same.

You don't need 4 A levels for university, not even for Oxbridge. DD really struggled with 4 subjects in year 12 and was so relieved to go down to 3 subjects

My perspective when dd started y12 doing 4 was that if she started 4 then found she hated one of them she could drop it, whereas if she'd only started 3 she would have been stuck with any she hated.

My school has always encouraged starting 4 and then dropping one, previously after AS results, now at any point during y12. Unfortunately, that can be difficult to fund as some subjects can be financially viable at the start but then a couple of pupils drop it and it's no longer viable but is on the timetable. So this year, following redundancies amongst the teaching staff, pupils are only encouraged to start 3, with only the very brightest being able to take 4. Others are encouraged to take "extras", like doing an EPQ, or core maths, which give the same points as AS levels and obviously don't need as many teaching hours as a full A level.

I did A-levels in Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Maths. I got AAAA (it was before A* grades started). It wasn't a difficult combination. No essays, and a slight overlap in content.

I think it would be more challenging to do a spread of subjects, for example Chemistry, German, History and Maths.

6/7 years ago when DS was taking A levels (all STEM), it seemed that all mumsnetters DC were looking to take law degrees.
there were loads of comments about how maths wasn't hard if you were good at it, further maths was really only a half A level etc etc.
Now STEM is the flavour of the month, everyone's DC is looking at maths or medicine and suddenly maths and science are hard.
How times change

Not everyonr is as bright as you TheSecond. Just because you found it easy doesn't mean to say it was easy.

A levels are much harder than GCSEs.
Biology A level does include an essay in the exam.

They're only hard if your DS struggles with them. I took two math/science and one humanities. I put twice as much work into the latter than the first two combined because I didn't need to work very hard in STEM subjects to get a good grade.

What he learns in maths will support his learning in physics, physics will support his chemistry and that'll support his learning in biology. The subjects complement each other.

My DD and I have just had this conversation today about whether she should drop Biology (she hasn't even started them yet).

She's doing Maths, Chemistry, Biology, Business Studies plus the EPQ. She also has a part-time job and I wonder if it's all going to be too much for her. She'd not keen on doing Biology but worries that Business A' Level won't be considered serious enough for the better universities.

As she doesn't know what she wants to do after this, I told her to just focus on the subjects she enjoys and is most guaranteed to get a good grade.

Wonderingstar a lot of my mates done business studies one went to oxford two to Durham and one to Bristol - others went to various red bricks! If she's not keen on Biology it would probably be best not to do it.

Agree with Dipping. Unless your daughter is very academic and has no social life 4 A levels plus an EPQ (why?) and a job is just going to burn her out.

Thanks Dipping/Lonicera for your comments.

Her preference is to go to Uni in the US if she can get in. They look on the EPQ very favourably and tbh DD is going to do it on a subject she loves and knows lots about so I think doing it will be a bit of a release for her.

If she ends up in the UK then she'll need the academic A'levels although from what you're saying, Business Studies isn't really a poor choice as long as she can back it up with good grades in two facilitating subjects.

I think she's going to stick with what she's chosen with the view she can drop a subject if she needs to. GCSEs came very easy to her (the proof will be in the results though), but until she experiences the pace, content and expectation of doing the four A'levels she won't really know if she can cope or not.

I would double check the school's policy on dropping subjects. We don't allow it (unless there's an foreseeable problem). It's not a sampling the subject situation. After week 3 that's it for swapping over.