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Secondary education

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Original poster

Let's get back to a time when students, not teachers, could be blamed for exam performance

137 replies

noblegiraffe · 21/04/2017 10:11

Has the responsibility for exam results gone too far in the direction of teachers? Should feckless students be allowed to fail?

As a teacher I certainly feel under pressure to get students good results, even when they are not co-operating. Even at sixth form now at my school we are expected to chase kids around to make sure they've done a revision plan, done the work they are expected to do, liaise extensively with parents.

I'm also annoyed when kids that I am supposed to be getting through their GCSE are excluded in the run-up to the exams, or are taken out of my lessons (maths!) to do catch-up for other subjects. I need that time to get them the results!

But I also see that teachers need some responsibility for results otherwise they could just phone it in.

How should things be?

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/lets-get-back-a-time-when-students-not-teachers-could-be-blamed-exam

OP posts:
FaFoutis · 23/04/2017 13:33

I haven't read the thread but just wanted to say that I mark exams (not UK) and the influence of teachers is very easy to spot. A whole group can get poor grades because the teacher has not identified the correct hoops to jump through.

I think the problem lies mainly with the exams though, students taught how to pass the exam (when teachers have a good understanding of how to do this) do best. Knowledge and critical thinking won't get you very far if your teacher can't tell you where the hoops are. That's wrong.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/04/2017 13:34

At least one school has scrapped revision sessions, describing them as a backside-covering exercise. www.google.co.uk/amp/schoolsweek.co.uk/headteacher-scraps-mad-year-11-revision-classes-to-protect-pupil-mental-health/amp/

OP posts:
GetAHaircutCarl · 23/04/2017 13:35

At DC's school there are revision sessions and clinics.

So pupils expected to revise and identify problem areas which can they be dealt with in groups at sessions or individually at clinics.

GetAHaircutCarl · 23/04/2017 13:36

DC say the later are super helpful, the former, not so much.

BoboChic · 23/04/2017 13:39

The French DC I know often do revision courses that have nothing to do with their schools. Our experience is that this is great for getting a different perspective to the one their school has, and can raise awareness of issues their own school has overlooked.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/04/2017 13:42

Presumably they are paid for courses, Bobo?

OP posts:
BoboChic · 23/04/2017 13:43

Yes. The shadow education market is huge and flourishing in France! There are massive tax breaks for employing home tutors.

BoboChic · 23/04/2017 13:44

All this takes the burden off school teachers, of course...

PiqueABoo · 23/04/2017 13:48

JustRichmal "was not aware that not being disruptive in class was a sign of a mental disorder, but you have obviously studied the subject more than me."

DD is very 'high-attaining' and school-side is always a bit stuck for curriculum things to put in the to-improve part of their reports, so we've had quite a few references to her quieter, studious and introverted character. Not enough hands-up etc.

I expect few front-line teachers think her character equates to a mental disorder (and introversion isn't an official one now in current DSM), but despite being a near-perfect model pupil in terms of actually learning stuff she's not a great fit for the ideological 'progressive', child-centred, constructivist classroom.

Ofsted have stopped doing it in recent years, but used to enforce the latter. Children were supposed to be noisy/engaged by permanently exciting teachers and something like having the whole class with their heads down quietly reading for more than 10 minutes was frowned upon.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/04/2017 13:55

ideological 'progressive', child-centred, constructivist classroom.

Oh dear god the twitter rows that rage on about this...

OP posts:
PiqueABoo · 23/04/2017 14:16

Oh dear god the twitter rows that rage on about this...

Sorry, I get that, but 'child-centred' is clearly a significant factor in why teachers have been handed too much responsibility for the child.

Will be interesting to see how poster-school Michaela works out. Too extreme for my liking, but it often takes an extreme to make a point clear and my tenner says they will make their point.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/04/2017 14:17

The shadow education market is huge and flourishing in France!

Perpetuating social inequity I expect. Not sure how to counter that when state schools just don't have the resources to offer it for free.

The Korean School Swap program showed a taxi driver who worked so many hours that he never really saw the child that he was working so hard to pay for tuition for. The mothers going to the temple to have a mass pray for good exam results. I'd like more of a respect for education but not in that extreme way.

OP posts:
BoboChic · 23/04/2017 14:22

Shadow education is not necessarily socially inequitable. Firstly, the tax breaks for employing home tutors really are huge here, meaning that shadow education from qualified school teachers (who make the best sort of tutor for low-performing students) is relatively accessible. Secondly, shadow education is far more targeted to a student's individual needs and pace than school interventions are.

youarenotkiddingme · 23/04/2017 14:31

When I took my gcses 20 odd years ago the year 11's went on 'suspended timetable' after Easter.

You had to attend school for the half term between then and May but it was a revision timetable. After May there revision sessions during school day and you could attend on a voluntary basis. Most pupils attended.

You got your exam timetable and revision sessions continued during this time but it was mostly centred around what exams would be taking place.

We also were allowed to remove blazers and ties during this period and certainly for exams.

I don't know how the secondary school ds is currently at do things but I know the one he was at did things so differently. Students remained on a full timetable even through gcse's. There were lots of revision sessions after school, Half term and Saturdays which pupils were basically told they had to attend. Whenever exams were mentioned it was always alongside a reminder pupils were expected in class if not in an exam and expected in full and correct inform or they couldn't sit the exam. Someone asked why they had to be in school all day and school said to "make sure students turn up"
The pressure seemed ridiculous on both the teaching staff and the students. There appeared to be no downtime for them during preparation and they all looked horrifically stressed.

I'm not sure if suspended timetable really exists anymore? But the benefit of it was that students learnt to revise and manage their own time and teachers were available for those who wanted to do well rather than chasing up the few who went awol worried about missing performance targets.

I do t really have a solution or know the ins and outs because I'm not a teacher. By I do know there was far more responsibility placed on students when I did mine.

Esker · 23/04/2017 14:39

We treat our 6th formers like absolute babies... I spend way too much time making idiot proof handouts etc for them. I keep a tally of any lessons they miss, save the relevant resources for them, and have them behind to catch up 1:1. I must sound like a total mug, and I can see that I am in a way, but then come results day, it will be me who be hauled over the coals if they don't do well.
Agree with other posters though in that the key to getting young people to feel motivated to work is to make them feel successful, that they are good at it when they put in the effort, and that hard work pays off.
I really do think teachers are held to account for many things that are beyond their control, and I wish that would change.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 23/04/2017 14:43

youare schools have to class "study leave" as an absence before half term. After half term they don't.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/04/2017 14:47

Study leave was clamped down on because some schools were chucking out troublesome Y11s to roam the streets after Easter and calling it study leave. Then some schools found they got better results with less study leave and more supervision. Then it got to the point where schools keep an iron grip on the kids for as long as they can to ensure that they actually do some studying, penalising kids who would study, and study better at home, ignoring the fact that it means kids have no idea how to study and are lost when they hit y12. The solution is no study leave for Y12 either.

OP posts:
BoboChic · 23/04/2017 14:48

It is understandable that, if teachers are going to be held to account for exam results, they do the work to ensure acceptable results.

BoboChic · 23/04/2017 14:49

There is practically no study leave in France for the bac - a few days at most.

Phantommagic · 23/04/2017 15:01

It has gone too far and is bad for pupils imo. Many are developing the belief that someone will always be there to pick them up, shoulder the blame, and that failure is never OK.
As a teacher my stress levels and frustration go through the roof at this time of year. When pupils tell me about their holiday in Spain over Easter, or worse, May half term, and how they work in their job all day Saturday and Sunday the weekend before my exam, my heart just drops as I think about trying to explain their results to SLT.

BoboChic · 23/04/2017 15:07

I'm fascinated by parents who take their DC away on holiday before high-stakes exams. A few days' rest, yes. But only in order to recuperate for study.

Phantommagic · 23/04/2017 15:08

People do though. Which is their choice of course, but has an impact on the school too.

BoboChic · 23/04/2017 15:18

We didn't go on holiday this Easter. DD is in Year 8 - she would have liked a holiday (she liked having her cousin to stay instead and we had a lovely time doing the kind of touristy things we don't usually do) but DSS2, who is in his second year of university, wanted to come home to revise with full board and lodging and support with internship applications...

SagelyNodding · 23/04/2017 16:10

Yes cauli I'm currently a contractuelle in a state collège doing the CAPES interne next year...if I'm not totally discouraged by then...

sniffle12 · 23/04/2017 21:01

Piqueaboo: despite being a near-perfect model pupil in terms of actually learning stuff she's not a great fit for the ideological 'progressive', child-centred, constructivist classroom.

Yes this. An approach that was theoretically aimed at accommodating different learning styles has ended up excluding anybody who actually learns in a traditional way.

I've always learnt by writing, preferably alone. I was lucky to go to school at a time when a lesson could literally just be a teacher dictating things and the students writing them down (and this was the early 2000s!). Obviously that's an extreme example, and I'm all for interaction and mixing it up, but it shouldn't be at the expense of children who like traditional learning.