Let's get back to a time when students, not teachers, could be blamed for exam performance

[noblegiraffe]

Has the responsibility for exam results gone too far in the direction of teachers? Should feckless students be allowed to fail?

As a teacher I certainly feel under pressure to get students good results, even when they are not co-operating. Even at sixth form now at my school we are expected to chase kids around to make sure they've done a revision plan, done the work they are expected to do, liaise extensively with parents.

I'm also annoyed when kids that I am supposed to be getting through their GCSE are excluded in the run-up to the exams, or are taken out of my lessons (maths!) to do catch-up for other subjects. I need that time to get them the results!

But I also see that teachers need some responsibility for results otherwise they could just phone it in.

How should things be?

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/lets-get-back-a-time-when-students-not-teachers-could-be-blamed-exam

The fault lies with the school..my son ,in top sets for everything is pushed hard..my friends daughter in bottom sets,is never pushed or encouraged..my son for the past year has had catch up in every subject every day after school getting home at 5 pm...my friends daughter no catch up offered....the system STINKS?.

Yes, every Sept. I have to analyse the performance of sub-groups too: gender, pupil premium, SEND, looked-after children. I keep records of letters sent, phone calls made, who attended booster sessions and when. I spent £90 of my budget on a revision app for them and not all of them even use it. The dept results dipped last year and although I didn't teach the Y11s that year, I still had to explain the results.

My family are immigrants and the importance of education and the concept of being educated is highly valued. DH is from Denmark, his family definitively working class, and education just is not a priority for them. He talks about his schooling as just being. His parents were not involved at all and he left school at 17 to do military service followed by a job.

I was so lucky to have parents who highly valued education and sought out schools with a great ethos in terms of learning. DH has since completed an MBA and it really opened his eyes to education. He is a whole lot more vested in our DCs education now.

Our DC go to the public school in our town here in the US. It is a good school because the teachers command respect and have absolute control over the pupils. They teach discipline in a few ways during the early years but if parents don't follow through it will be for nothing. This is why in our town, where 47% of the school are on FSMs, so many parents switch to private after 3rd or 4th grade.

In the U.K. I think what has happened to teaching is unacceptable. There needs to be a rethink about the value of education and it starts with pegging teacher salaries to the highest paid professions just like they did in Singapore.

The verbal and physical abuse that teachers are forced to put up with is unacceptable. Those pupils need to go into specialist units. Yes this costs money. All I hear is how we can't afford it. Personally I take the viewpoint that we can't afford not to do it.

Matchsticks - it sounds horrifically close to my most hated course on my MBA, Operations Management

exam results analysis meetings?!

Yes I think this happens in every school. Then the target setting. Then the accountability.

Meanwhile the kids are relaxing with a McDonalds and their parents are bitching about the teachers!

Don't forget mock exam results analysis meetings.

Yes, trial runs. You are indeed subjected to factory processes.

It starts pre-school. Everything to do with confidence and motivation and tenacity does.

How do families of highly motivated children instil those values in their children from an early age?

Is the problem in the UK not so much that education isn't valued, but that (some) parents expect schools to do all the educating for them?

Noble, what do you mean by "done parents expect schools to do all the education for them". If you mean have some parents abdicated educational responsibilities, along with no support at home - then I would say it is a very small percentage.

No, it's not a very small percentage. Even in primary school I would say it is 50/50 ( although obviously this depends on the school/area/demographics ) and worsens in secondary where many children are simply left t their own devices

I'm typing as I think about it tbh. But if we have Chinese/Indian families doing exceptionally well in British schools alongside British families that are not doing so well, then the conclusion must be that the Chinese families are doing something that the British families are not.

Is that because the British families expect the schools to do whatever Chinese families do themselves? Yoda said earlier that teachers in primary schools need more time to focus on values like resilience. Is that really the school's job?

noble - I agree that the culture in England places a lot of responsibility with schools to educate children (and not just instruct them). British DC are often quite ill-disciplined and that has to do with parents not knowing what they could do to have better behaved DC. Things like learning to sit at table in a restaurant without crayons and toys can be fabulous preparation for school, but by and large British parents think this is conceptually impossible.

Back on the teacher responsibility side of things, I was just thinking about that School Swap Korea programme (a must-watch if you haven't seen it. Heartbreaking in some ways). There were students falling asleep in the classrooms all the time. This was normal, because the students were up till midnight studying in tutor centres and at home.

If a kid fell asleep in my lesson and SLT walked in, a) it would probably be because the kid had been on snapchat/COD all night and b) I'd get bollocked for it.

There is a book just published called Say Bonjour to the Lady with very good vignettes highlighting the differences between French and American parenting. Much of the American parenting is true of British parenting.

Speaking as an Anglo/Indian, I think we no longer have the hunger and drive that we had from the 60s to the 90s. This drive came from first generation immigrants. Whilst it still exists, it is no longer in the same realms as of times gone past.

Anglo/Chinese parents value education and will drive the highest extremes of excellence. Their approrroach is breathtaking. They still have that first generation immigrant culture of instilling academic excellence. But you could not embrace that in schools, as much of this Anglo/Chinese excellence stems from the culture of deference for the highest standards in education.

noble

I don't say it because it's the school's job, but if it's not happening at home, then someone has to help (I'm still talking Primary here)

But it's societal. Children don't take risks, they don't have freedom, they don't stretch their bodies, or minds in many cases. They, increasingly, have entertainment shovelled into them and when they get bored they just switch to something else. They can't attend for extended periods. They have instant gratification. Thank God ipads didn't exist when mine were young

if it's not happening at home, then someone has to help

Do schools actually have the capacity to do that? Your previous post suggests not.

Secondary schools are plagued with this sort of stuff 'kids should be taught mindfulness/first aid/sign language/relationship red flags/how to spot mental health problems/how to vote/balance a chequebook' and on and on. 'Do it in PSHE' they say, ignoring the fact that PSHE is an hour a week that the kids see as a doss taught often by teachers who were given a PowerPoint the night before.

I do think that many DC do not acquire basic life skills either at home or at school. How can this be addressed? School is not necessarily the right environment.

I know I am dreaming. The curriculum is stuffed full. Year 2s being taught grammatical terminology for instance

French DCs are taught grammatical terminology in primary. Learning about the structure of language is not a futile exercise: learning about the structures and rules that govern us fosters discipline and structured thinking.

Structured eating is useful too...

I've no problem with it. But at year 2, when some of them need to focus on speaking, listening and reading. Not so much

British DC have to dive straight into reading the minute they start school. A couple of years learning to listen, speak, follow instructions is helpful before tackling reading.

nobel is on the money and, as a parent, I would love for you to run the department of education.

We value education. Our DC are small and homework given to DD is taken seriously. She does a math and chess class each week. The math class is a hybrid of science and logic with the delivery of material being very hands on in terms of being applied rather than theory. We also have our DC in music classes. DD does a great violin class with a teacher that exposes her to music and DS has music therapy twice a week.

We reinforce what is taught through homework and making sure the elder two spend 15mins every morning and night. We also make sure each child is read to or reads for at least 30mins a day. Most days they read far more than this and we keep a good collection of books from the library and the 2nd hand book store.

Most importantly even now at 4 and 5, DS and DD will get frustrated and 'give up'. The message from DH and I is clear. If you find it hard, ask for help and try again. There is no such thing as failure if you try.

How do families of highly motivated children instil those values in their children from an early age?

Are we allowed to control for genes?

Behavioural traits are significantly heritable, and although there is obviously 'wriggle room' we haven't needed any because my DD came with her self-motivation, focus and determination built-in. We were very lucky. I think the main influences on children are genes, peers and parents i.e. parents are in third place. That doesn't suit lots of agendas though e.g. we still have plenty of people insisting that they're all born blank slates and differences in outcomes are almost entirely about home advantage v. disadvantage.

We also have parents wanting to take too much credit for the successful 'shape' of their child, and/or blaming other parents for the inferioir 'shape' of their child. For instance if both parent and child have some strong personality trait in common, then it's typically assumed that the parent essentially trained the child to be like that, not the significant probability (never certainty) that the child and parent might have genes for that trait in common. Extreme environments and parenting, or rather lack of parenting, can obviously wreck any promise in the DNA but the majority of children do live relatively comfortable lives. It wasn't that long ago when people had lots of children and only a fraction lived to become adults e.g. my mother nearly died of diptheria during the epedemic when she was very young.

I don’t know how it works out in practice, but it's worth asking whether some of our high-performing immigrants like the Chinese are self-selecting. Moving half way around the world to live in a new country is not something I associate with especially lazy or unintelligent people. The culture obviously makes a difference too, but it looks like some of what we think is an environmental/cultural thing is also heritable.