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Secondary education

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Original poster

Bring back corporal punishment

98 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/03/2017 14:47

If we're heading back to the age of grammar schools, then let's also bring back corporal punishment. I understand that the suggestion is supported by 42% of people who voted a certain way.

Any supporters on here?

OP posts:
swingofthings · 31/03/2017 15:59

Isn't there something in between what it is now and corporal punishment? I do think that a small element of fear is a good thing, certainly teaches kids to learn about being more resilient and coping with anxiety, but I strongly think that corporal punishment is taking it to a much too far extreme.

What I think modern education is missing is the element of competition. I never understood the process why which this was considered a bad thing. Competition is all around us, whether we like or not and everyone will face it at some point.

lottachocca · 31/03/2017 16:00

Are you saying 42% of Tory voters? It's a no from me, btw!

GreenPeppers · 31/03/2017 16:01

Nope. It's 42% of Leave voters....

GreenPeppers · 31/03/2017 16:03

I'm not even sure how you could even consider doing that.
So whilst at school it would be ok to hit a child. But a parent at home wouldnt legally be able to ... because you know it's abusive and all that.

I've seen these stats and wondered what on earth had gone through the mind of those people TBH.

lottachocca · 31/03/2017 16:05

Nice bunch of people - run a school with fear and violence at its heart - lead by example!

justnowords · 31/03/2017 16:37

I always imagine it mostly older people who were lucky enough not to suffer any great duress under corporal punishment are usually the keenest to see it re implemented. Other people, like my mother, who being from a poor orphanage background, was subjected to the utmost cruelty (being caned or belted several times) for things outwith her control (holes in shoes/ill fitting clothes - not her fault, being late - once she was older she had to help out in the orphanage before going to school, not being able to do her schoolwork properly - she had no parental guidance or help, etc). She also remembers that pretty much if your face didnt fit, they'd find an excuse to hit you. I wouldnt want to subject any child to that.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/03/2017 16:50

I think the people who want corporal punishment back in schools probably aren't averse to whacking kids at home either. A smack never did them any harm...

OP posts:
Eolian · 31/03/2017 16:54

I'm a teacher and am totally against corporal punishment, not least because it wouldn't work. The kind of kid bad enough to warrant corporal punishment would these days be likely to kick your head in if you tried.

pointythings · 31/03/2017 16:54

I'd take my kids out of school if by some stretch of the imagination that ever came in.

My native Holland banned it in schools in 1920. When I was at school in the UK in 1978/79 my mum had to write a letter to the school saying my sister and I were not to be hit or else.

remoaniac · 31/03/2017 16:56

When I was at school in the UK in 1978/79 my mum had to write a letter to the school saying my sister and I were not to be hit or else

That's interesting as teachers did not hit children in 1978/79. I was in infant school in the UK then (state school). I'm not sure if private schools had different rules.

therootoftheroot · 31/03/2017 17:00

I was hit at school in the 1980s so I don't know why you say it it didn't happen in the 70s

BertieBotts · 31/03/2017 17:00

They were allowed to though remo. It was only banned in state schools in 1987, and private schools in 1998. It was down to the individual school to decide before then.

Maudlinmaud · 31/03/2017 17:00

Oh my god no way! Dh is older than me and what he went through at school has always haunted him. If it where brought back and I very much doubt it will be, but if it where I couldn't hit anyone and certainly not a child.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/03/2017 17:01

It wasn't banned in English state schools until 1986, and private schools in 1998.

I just read this BBC article and this quote is Shock

"David Hart, general secretary for the National Association of Head Teachers said the judgement - which does not ban caning - will cause confusion in schools which will have to distinguish between children who are allowed to be beaten and those who are not.

"You cannot have one section of pupils who may be subject to punishment and another section who cannot be punished," he said.

"My advice to members is - carry on caning.""

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/25/newsid_2516000/2516621.stm

OP posts:
flyingwithwings · 31/03/2017 17:02

'Bring back Public hangings and the stocks as well'

Only joking i do not think Corporal Punishment is appropriate in any form for school discipline enforcement.

However, 'Noble' can you think of another way to discipline children , rather than a blunt instrument a '15-30 minute after school detention is.

Another thing stop regarding 7.2 million voters as contemptible because they disagree politically with the general left wing 'Praxis' of how schools discipline children.

The 7.2 million is almost the same number as the 7.5 million votes(25%) the Labour Party are due to get at the next general election!

So don't disregard 7 million people as 'fruitcakes' because those that vote Labour or predisposed could also be called fruitcakes.

1nsanityscatching · 31/03/2017 17:02

The cane and slipper were used at my state junior school remoaniac and I left 1979. Pretty sure the cane was still being used in the early part of secondary school and I witnessed HT punch and kick a fifth former, a geography teacher hit a boy with a metre rule and lots of teachers throw board rubbers, chalk books, a mug at various points.

BertieBotts · 31/03/2017 17:02

I was at school in the 90s and my classmate was caned at her weekend Muslim school. We were all fascinated and horrified. She had marks on her hands from it days later. Hard to believe that was legal. She was being punished for failing to learn verses from the Qur'an.

lavenderandrose · 31/03/2017 17:03

Giraffe, do you actually want to discuss the question, or are you just looking for ways to try to establish that those who vote conservative are also in favour of physically chastising a child?

Because I think you know corporal punishment has as much chance as being reintroduced as Corbyn has of winning the next election. If you don't like the conservatives, how about forming a proper opposition and not just taking pointless swipes at those who vote differently to you.

Sorry if I sound grumpy. Long, hard term Smile

annandale · 31/03/2017 17:04

This should wind us all up nicely Grin

I always liked the study they did of the effectiveness of the tawse in a Scottish school - might have been late 70s, early 80s? It was used so often they stopped counting at 1000 times or somthing - doesn't exactly suggest huge effectiveness.

I have never been hit as a child so just find it weird you would need to. If a child has done something bad enough to be hit, what else is going on? If they are going to be hit for general low level disruption, how out of whack would that be?

flyingwithwings · 31/03/2017 17:06

Once again, the Survey of Rewards and Punishments in Schools can give us some useful information here. This survey carried out the early 1950s by the National Foundation for Educational Research in England and Wales and published in 1952 includes what is probably the most detailed statistical survey of corporal punishment practice in Britain ever undertaken.

And from data on page 163 of that report, we find evidence that corporal punishment was extremely rare in girls grammar schools at the time of the survey.

Corporal punishment was used in girls grammar schools at a rate that was approximately 1/60th that of girls in education as a whole.

As other data in the study, indicates that approximately 3.6% of girls would have been subjected to corporal punishment in any given year, we end up with an estimate of roughly 0.06% of girls in grammar schools being likely to be subjected to corporal punishment in any one year.

Not a very high number at all. And that's all corporal punishment - the figure for caning would be even lower.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/03/2017 17:07

If you don't like the conservatives

Eh? What has this got to do with the conservatives?

OP posts:
Astro55 · 31/03/2017 17:08

Canning still happened in 1981 in junior school - in assembly in front of the whole school.

I think the thought of it was enough to keep some kids in line - but it's not effective

You wouldn't put up with it in work - and schools should reflect the work place

lavenderandrose · 31/03/2017 17:15

Sorry, what does the 42% refer to then? Leave voters?

flyingwithwings · 31/03/2017 17:15

The thread is trying to state that 42% of leave voters are pro corporal punishment !

It is not a stretch to suggest the vast majority of these 42 % 7 Million voters will either be Conservatives or UKIP voters.

Therefore this thread was all political and about painting a picture.

NeonGod73 · 31/03/2017 17:16

When I was growing up and where I am coming from, teachers were authorised to use corporal punishment when need be. Having said this, they very rarely used it. Probably because there was no need. We were respectful and mostly disciplined. On the occasion they used corporal punishment it seemed to be working.
I think people who are vehemently against corporal punishment fear that it would get out of hand and some teachers would go over the top, but I think it's unreasonable. I think with certain kids in certain situations only smacking them works.