New grammars by 2020 which will exclude 90% of local kids

[noblegiraffe]

What an excellent use of scarce public funding, to build schools that most kids can't access instead of using it to build good comprehensives to improve the life-chances of everyone.

Word from the government (who appear to be ploughing ahead with the proposals before they've even published the consultation results) is that new grammars will only take the top 10% rather than the top 25% of kids. God knows where they've got the evidence that the top 10% of kids require a different school but they're certainly not sharing it with us.

It is also beyond me how making grammar schools even more elite will help with the promised social mobility agenda, when previous discussions were about how the pass grade would be needed to be lowered to increase the number of disadvantaged kids gaining access.

And if you were in favour of a grammar school opening in your area because you thought your kid would get in, how sure are you now? How much less tempting is a grammar school opening up if your kid is more likely to be sent to the other school?

In addition, expect to see furious threads in the near future from parents whose local school of choice has converted to a grammar and their kid is now being bussed to another school in the MAT that they wouldn't have chosen for them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38906594

Sir not Sur

But if someone living in your house had children who passed the 11+ but they could not afford the bus, they would HAVE to attend the secondary modern as it's closer?

If that system was logical, it would mean that some children would have to attend the grammar because they could not afford the bus to the secondary modern? Or does it work asymmetrically - that there is always free transport to the nearest secondary modern, but only free transport to the grammar if it is your closest school?

That way, the grammars 'win' twice - they get to cream off both on the basis of academic merit AND socioeconomic background ...

Yep always free transport to closest sec modern.

Ironically our closest sec modern is not our catchment one - no one goes there from our village- the non grammar kids from here pay for transport too.

This is the other fact people don't focus on with grammars. Our county is 100% selective - our grammars are outstanding. A large number of our Uppers (sec modern) are in and out of special measures. The majority of children will not go to a grammar school!

Our catchment upper is exceptional hence people will not go to the closest upper (special measures) - no one from here has ever gone there - irrespective of the impact of the cost of transport.

I'm surprised at the transport thing- in Kent if you live more than 3 miles from the nearest suitable school you get a bus pass- and suitable is the nearest grammar if you have a place there even if there is a nearer secondary modern.

BertrandRussell Kent is providing over their legal obligation (as does Warks) - I would imagine with ongoing cuts this will change. The legal obligation is to provide transport to the closest school only.

The government has finally admitted that it failed to assess the impact on disabled children and young people of its “discriminatory” plans to expand grammar schools in England.

The Department for Education (DfE) has previously refused to say if it carried out an equality impact assessment (EIA) on its consultation paper, Schools That Work For Everyone, which includes plans to remove the ban on opening new grammar schools in England.

The consultation paper fails to include a single mention of disabled children and young people.

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dfe-finally-admits-we-didnt-assess-equality-impact-of-grammar-school-expansion/

Olly- are you sure? That would mean some kids only getting transport to a grammar school they
Couldn't get into. And what about
Faith schools?

A day early here is the Select Committee report.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/education-committee/news-parliament-2015/evidence-check-grammar-schools-report-published-16-17/

I haven't read it because I can't face yet more reams of evidence which I know the government will ignore. One expert has tweeted that it is "politely brutal" in shredding the case for more grammars. Can only hope it will influence MPs.

Olly The situation you describe sounds similar to this one:

localequalexcellent.org.uk/index.php/2017/02/10/one-village-two-schools-world-difference/

Gov.UK says "suitable school" too..........

BertrandRussell yes I am right - believe me it's a very contentious issue here - it is the nearest school you are qualified for so, as I said up thread non qualifiers don't have grammars taken into account. Any council providing more then this is exceeding the minimum requirements.

So a secondary modern is regarded as a suitable school for an 11+ passer, but a grammar school is not regarded as suitable for an 11+ failer?

As I say, grammars having their cake and eating it too, by weeding out those who are poor but have passed the 11+...

cantkeepawayforever yep exactly that - they say the Uppers (sec modern) are all ability schools...

As I said people be careful what you wish for! Bucks has always been 100% selective with no comps.

It also has a hideous affect on primary schools with people upping and leaving good schools in year 3 to go to schools whose usp is their 11+ pass rate (private). It's a horrible decisive system - and I say that as someone with both kids in a v v sought after grammar.

HPFA yes I'm in Bucks and the situation in that article is exactly that. My catchment upper - Great Marlow- is an amazing school but the majority of Uppers are in and out of special measures. Burnham grammar (the one in the article) is rated good - the rest of Bucks grammars are rated outstanding.

Bucks County Council considers that 'Upper Schools' are more than capable of educating 'all' pupils adequately . Therefore the nearest 'appropriate' school for any pupil is the nearest Upper School !

flying If that's true then clearly there's no need for grammars.

I've had this argument with Bucks and it got me nowhere. They just said if you don't want to send your children to the grammar then don't.

Interestingly the letter they send with the results tells you that your child is deemed 'suitable ' for grammar.

It's a rotten situation but I do acknowledge that my children are at an amazing school (although all schools have some less good teachers) - the extra curricular and enrichment opportunities are outstanding and the culture of success and ambition is truly inspiring. (It has to be noted that the school is in a very affluent area and receives £200k + a year in parental donations).

HPFA. The real reason is Buckinghamshire Council is 'Skint' and looking for any way to save money !

Do you blame them if they use every loophole in the book to do so !

However, both Gt Marlow and Waddesdon are more than capable of educating all levels of ability !

The educated middle class 'Conscientious' objector's will be able to keep their morality intact if they use those schools.

I think if Burnham ended up with just one school, it would end up being 'Crap' it would still be the ECT Academy just bigger and ruin the 23% that had escaped from its clutches.

Burnham has had a troubled time with Khalsa and all the upset it caused. BGS is a great school though but like looked down on by some

It is ridiculous of Bucks CC to claim that upper schools are fine for all pupils and simultaneously to argue that grammars are necessary.

Mind you, this is the same Bucks CC that boasts of its superior exam results to neighbouring authorities without ever mentioning the numbers of High Attaining students travelling over the border into Bucks whilst the lower achieving march the other way.

The thing is, the Bucks position would be logically consistent if it said 'nobody gets transport to grammars' (this is the position in counties with a few grammar schools but not a county-wide system)

What is truly bizarre about it is that, if i understand correctly, it WILL gigve transport to a grammar OR a secondary modern if your nearest school is a grammar, but a secondary modern only if you live closest to a secondary modern.

This wouldn't be because grammars are located in nicer postcodes so it is a good way of ensuring the nicest possible intake for the grammars, would it?

But grammarcschools don't give places to children from deprived areas

They do in Kent. Everyone thinks the home counties are rich but there are some real pockets of deprivation in Kent.

I went to school in Torquay and there are some real pockets of deprivation there as well. And yes, some of the kids I went to school with at the grammar came from those areas. Because the catchment was so tight and the grammar took the top 25%. Now it takes about 3% and the girls come in from all over the place, including, I believe, Cornwall! It's ludicrous.

The problem is if you have grammars that take the top 3% only they become even more elitest and private-by-proxy. I'd prefer a much larger percentage going there, though I do take the point about more kids being left behind in the secondary moderns.

I've always thought selection should be 14 rather than 11, and very fluid so you can opt in and out of the more academic and less academic tracks. Oh that would be a comprehensive school! I was always in favour of grammars because I thought I'd have been stacking shelves in Tescos if I'd gone to my local comp/secondary modern but I realise that was rubbish. And I live in a non-selective area now with very good comprehensives.

"But grammarcschools don't give places to children from deprived areas

They do in Kent. Everyone thinks the home counties are rich but there are some real pockets of deprivation in Kent."

Which grammar schools did you mean?

cantkeepawayforever

They say they will give transport to the closest school you are qualified for so if:

A) pupil qualified for grammar - this is any school - grammar or upper so whatever is closer

B) pupil not qualified for grammar - this is the closest upper school

Note: it is the closest Bucks school so not necessarily your catchment school (as is my case) - my children are at their closest catchment school but there is a closer (30 meters) non catchment non grammar school.

Note 2 : If your closest school is out of county they will give you a choice of either free transport to the out of county school or free transport to your closest Bucks school (which you are qualified for).