Is this punishment 'fair enough' and normal practice?

[youarenotkiddingme]

So a child in yr 7 is walking through school with friends.

See's older pupils wearing something non uniform policy. It's very obviously not in keeping with the school. The school have a massive image complex and drum it into the pupils.

Pupils makes a comment to friends about how come they get away with it, they don't like the image and then says it makes them look like (but not racist/ disablist or anything)

Teacher overheard the comment (or rather the context of conversation) and pupil out on harshest detention they dish out for using an unkind word.

I'm being vague as don't want to be outed.

But I'm wondering if it's normal to punish children so harshly for a comment made in passing to friends in a corridor?
(Teacher admits they didn't actually hear word first time and only know exactly what was said as pupil asked and she told her)

Someone up thread has posted a link to the Cambridge Dictionary definition... Which states 'Tart- female prostitute'

I can find tart described as meaning a prostitute in the Cambridge English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Collins, Chambers and Macmillan.

I think those are the main English dictionaries?

Don't worry, OP, your autocorrect is pure of thought. I think 'Senecio should have been scenario, that's all.

I think some of you should invest in a dictionary.

Yep, it's in my DH's Shorter Oxford. Says that it used to be affectionate, now derogatory. And means prostitute. I remember when "tart" was used commonly, then it seemed to get replaced by "slag" to mean much the same thing. Maybe these days many people really don't know?

I linked to a dictionary definition earlier in the thread bojo. Perhaps you should get down from your high horse and accept that you may be wrong on that one.

The fact that an eleven year old hasn't seen Pretty Woman is irrelevant. I was talking about the adults on this site claiming not to know what tart means, not the eleven year old. Any decent dictionary will tell you it means prostitute (as evidenced by other posters above).

Even if someone genuinely doesn't know it means prostitute, they cannot possibly think it is anything but derogatory. The eleven year old used the word purely because it's derogatory. She was trying to insult the other girl.

Actually tbf to the girl she wasn't actually aiming to insult.

Her friend commented and pointed out the girls skirt length and how it was unfair the older children got away with it.

The girl just said "she agreed it was h fair hit didn't like the look anyway as it was tarty".

It's not a word that we have seen as having a derogatory meaning like prostitute. It's a word we've used to describe wearing less than is necessary for everyday life. So nightclub type attire.

And by we I mean people I know in friendship groups/family/ local people etc.

That's easy to correct. I don't use it and mention to others that use it what it's definition is in wide society.

And I'll just confirm the DD version of events and what was said is true. The way the do the dt emails means they give a very detailed explanation of why rather than "didn't hand in homework" or "used an inappropriate word"

I hate this shit about "appropriate" clothing which is obviously only ever aimed at females. And the way they hope that girl pupils will collude in calling other pupils "tatlrty" to reinforce that sexist dress code is horrifying.

It happens at my DDs' school where there's an equally unhealthy obsession with uniform. It's all about the girls modifying their behaviour so that the boys can control themselves.

Utterly vile

Cone on op. This is 2017. Surely any woman operating in normal society can see that tart and tarty are words that are only ever applied to females in a derogatory way. That must raise some alarm bells surely. You, your friend and are dd are not stupid. And I hope you are teaching your ds that these words are just not on

Sorry about the typos. I'm a bit tipsy

can't find tart described as meaning a prostitute in the Cambridge English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Collins, Chambers and Macmillan."

You can quote Johnson or the oed or whoever as much as you like and we all know that none of us want our daughters to be labelled a tart. Because it is a derogatory term for women and girls. Intellectualise it all you like. But the kid in the op did not mean it as a compliment.

No I don't teach my ds words that aren't on.

My ds has a disability and I spend an inordinate amount of time on speech and language with him.

My original question was about is it usual for punishment for things overheard when it was a personal comment about how someone found something.

And I'm open to the fact I'd ask if something looked tarty of it was low cut or short. But in the context of "am I showing more than necessary". There's a difference IMO between that and thinking that woman shouldn't dress how they like.

But let's be honest - it is inappropriate to roll a skirt up shorter than the blazer length. Not least because it's a school uniform. We'd find it inappropriate to go into a bank and see staff dressed like that.

This has nothing to do girls or their choice of clothes. The older lads have all taken to a style like something out of happy days with shorter trousers, white socks and blazer sleeves rolled up. There are comments about how they get away with it and younger years don't too.

This thread has opened my eyes to how tarty can be far more offensive than I thought. I've accepted that and accept I need to adapt my view of the word. But it's important to distinguish between saying a loon is tarty and going up to someone and calling them a tart.

Same as commenting that a group of girls are bitchy and going up to one and outright calling them a bitch.

I seemed to lose a chunk there!

I'm open to the fact my use and understanding of the word isn't how most of society see it and see that has to stop. But my use of the word was ....

This has nothing to do girls or their choice of clothes.

It had everything to do with girls and /or their choice of clothes

Tarty is offensive because it is judgy. It it labelling. It is pejorative. And it is only ever ever ascribed to girls. Which, in itself, is a reason to think long and hard about why and how it's used.

but let's be honest - it is inappropriate to roll a skirt up shorter than the blazer length.

Why?

I am so sorry everyone. I completely and totally mis-typed.

I CAN CAN CAN find tart described as meaning a prostitute in the Cambridge English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Collins, Chambers and Macmillan.

Sorry for a useless mistake rendering my quote quite useless and misleading,

Allot shall I stand down the MN outrage?

Nah, as you were, I probably deserve it for not proof-reading.

Off topic slightly but i don't like it when younger girls are described as a "little madam" because boys can be just the same but there isn't an equivalent for them.

I do get tarty isn't a compliment!

But my question still stands. Would no one seriously be a little about entering a bank, board meeting or somewhere and seeing a woman in a skirt shorter than their jacket which showed underwear if they bent over.

I totally do not buy into the idea that woman ask to be assaulted if they chose to dress that way.

And I put the same question about men. Woukdnt you a little if your male bank manager turned up for a meeting in tight short shorts and a fitted t shirt?

The girl was clearly wrong to express her opinion out loud. I assume she'd have had the same punishment for declaring a look chavvy or gothy iho. I also accept that tarty is more offensive than I've realised.

I'm afraid you'll never convince me that wearing any type of uniform in a way that's different to what's policy for the place it's designed for is acceptable - boy or girl.

This school don't allow trousers for girls though - and I'm dead against that.

Your child called another child a tart and you don't think there should be consequences?

No my child did not. RTFT.

I asked a question, said I was surprised my reaction was different to my usual stance and asked if maybe emotion was getting in the way. I realised it was and accepted that.

Thread has moved on somewhat since then and the discussion is opening my eyes to stuff. I'm clearly more naive to certain things than I realised.
I'm always happy to be corrected when wrong or educated when misunderstanding.

But please don't accuse me of things incorrectly.

It's a separate issue from this situation at the school, OP.

But since you ask; there are social conventions about clothing and appearance that does make me notice if someone is 'professionally' dressed or not. So yes, I don't wear the very short skirts in my wardrobe into the office; I save them for nights out. But I don't think that a woman who chooses to defy that social connection by choosing to wear a very short skirt to an office is tarty; it has nothing to do with her sex life and to me that is what tarty implies - that someone is promiscuous.