Is this punishment 'fair enough' and normal practice?

[youarenotkiddingme]

So a child in yr 7 is walking through school with friends.

See's older pupils wearing something non uniform policy. It's very obviously not in keeping with the school. The school have a massive image complex and drum it into the pupils.

Pupils makes a comment to friends about how come they get away with it, they don't like the image and then says it makes them look like (but not racist/ disablist or anything)

Teacher overheard the comment (or rather the context of conversation) and pupil out on harshest detention they dish out for using an unkind word.

I'm being vague as don't want to be outed.

But I'm wondering if it's normal to punish children so harshly for a comment made in passing to friends in a corridor?
(Teacher admits they didn't actually hear word first time and only know exactly what was said as pupil asked and she told her)

It was a very derogatory way to speak about another girl so the punishment was deserved.

If there is a problem with unfairness in the way uniform rules are being enforced that needs to be addressed properly but it is in no way any kind of mitigation for insulting another pupil.

Schools like this must have rooms full of detention pupils. I would have thought that, for a Y7 pupil, the teacher should have pulled her to one side and explained why the comment was unacceptable. It is just too easy to dole out a detention without any attempt to explain why this should not be said. Yes, it is heavy handed and won't change much.

Schools that go to these lengths over uniform tend to not notice important things, like quality of teaching. They should also enforce the uniform in all year groups if they want to avoid resentment. This, of course, was the root of the problem. It is too easy to continually reinforce the uniform with the younger ones who are impressionable and not bother with the older ones. Not the sort of school I would support. Rules are rules, but they apply to everyone! Not just the younger children.

I looked at the Prospectus of the school two of my nieces go to recently. Half of it was the uniform policy!!! Utter madness. Nothing about sport, music, drama, details of the curriculum, what children could achieve, how the school is run - just pages of uniform rules. Why does any school think this is what parents want? Or even need to know in a prospectus? It even went into detail about when Blazers could be removed!!!

Your post is complete shite, borjorojo

Err? Why, exactly?

You would be marched straightaway to the detention room, Flogging!

It is interesting how the word "tarty" is not to be tolerated but hiding behind a name and saying someone else's post is "shite" does not really advance any reasonable discussion, does it? No wonder children talk in derogatory terms about each other and use such unfortunate language! They clearly pick it up from their parents. I don't encourage any of it, whether it be an anonymous poster or an 11 year old child that heard the term from her parents and didn't know any better. As an adult, Flogging, your linguistic skills should be more advanced and you should know better!

Fwiw I think excessive uniform rules are a pain, but there is absolutely no justification in claiming that schools who have harsh or extensive uniform rules are therefore incapable of caring about the things that do matter. Your nieces' schools do not constitute proof of this supposed tendency.

And Floggingmolly's use of the word 'shite' neither has anything to do with pupils insulting other pupils' appearance, nor indicates poor linguistic skills.

Tarty is better than slutty

Tarty is rude. I'm not surprised the school issued a consequence.
The school should apply the uniform rules fairly. All students should be held to the same standard.
But the two issues aren't the same and shouldn't be confused.

Is tarty really bad? it means prostitute. Yes, I would say that one school girl should not be saying another looks like a prostitute, quite definitely

I've never heard tarty used in the context of a girls fault for being raped because of what she's wearing.

However having been a rape victim I'm certainly considering the term now and it's connotations. Because I'm certainly one who would NEVER victim blame.

I've just known it in context of flashing a bit more than is necessary to being seen! Iyswim?

I'm not sure exactly what's going on in the school but new HT started (it's currently ofsted outstanding) and began the teaching of expected uniform, lessons or talks on how if you worked in a bank for example and had a skirt uniform you'd be expected to wear a certain length and school uniform is a practice for that. I don't get the feeling the teachers have necessarily gone in from the angle of short skirts being inappropriate because of the length (iyswim?) but there's definitely a stance that all children that started from sept will be held to the rules more sternly because they started with those rules.

But thanks for all the comments.

I'm usually one for backing up teachers as I don't believe they use dt etc 'just because' (I'm sure they have enough to do!) and it's confirmed that I'm probably right to have this attitude and my feelings and questions about this senecio were likely driven by emotion.

Goodness me! Tarty does not mean prostitute. The definition is that it is an informal word meaning: "dressing in a provocative manner that is considered to be in poor taste". That is not the same as saying a person is a prostitute. There is no connection between the word tarty and being paid for sex.

I think the word "shite" is both provocative, lazy and displays an inability to argue or discuss a point of view. It is an outburst.

There is plenty of evidence that schools can be overbearing and miss the important aspects of education and having a strong school ethos that everyone signs up to. Wearing a blazer at a given time is no indication whatsoever of a good school! Never was and never will be. It is incidental to a good education, good teaching and good results. It wastes the time of teachers who have to constantly check up on it. It wastes detention time and money when children have to be supervised. A word about the use of the word "tarty" from the teacher, at the time, would have been a more effective use of time and resources with a better outcome.

No connection? Have you never heard of tarts and vicars parties/ tart with a heart etc? It means prostitute.

Meanwhile, I'm more fascinated by Youarenotkidding's autocorrect, which is clearly fond of small garden plants.

Tart - A female prostitute.

My understanding is (was!) the same as bojo

What's my autocorrect done?! (Do I want to know?!)

My phone keeps changing words after I've typed text, proof read and then pressed send. I swear it's re reading as it's sent through cyberspace and decides exactly what it thinks I should be sending!

A tart is absolutely a prostitute. No doubt. It's probably not been used in that context since the 70s but that's what it means.
Therefore "tarty" means quite obviously a combination of "cheap" and sexual and of dubious morals.

I think the school was right to pull the pupil up. Personally, I really dislike the way words like slut, slag and tart are used against women. I have no issues with the word shite though.

I'm genuinely surprised that there are adults who do not realise that 'tart' is slang for prostitute. Why is the Pretty Woman storyline often described as 'tart with a heart' do you think? It absolutely means prostitute.

The reason 'tarty' is often used to describe a woman who is deemed to be 'showing too much flesh' is because prostitutes are traditionally thought of as 'showing too much flesh'. It's not an obscure link.

I've never seen pretty woman!

Perhaps another teacher would have reacted differently? Perhaps they would have explained? But as harsh as it seemed to punish a good student for something overheard I've certainly seen 'why' it happened from this thread.

It's amazing how much you learn about things!

What I was going to say when I read the OP: "it sounds fair to me. Calling names gets a detention. Especially if the name was misogynist/sexist like, I dunno, "tart"".

And then I read the rest of the thread and the word really was "tart". Go me!

Tart is indeed slang for prostitute. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek because it's rather old-fashioned slang and I'm surprised anyone uses the word these days but maybe it's making a comeback.

I think some of you should invest in a dictionary. Not you OP.

I think what Hollywood uses as a slogan to sell a film film, is not the dictionary definition. Tart does not mean prostitute and I would like any of you to quote me a dictionary definition that says it is. People may make the connection, as you all have, but it does not have that actual meaning. It is a Hollywood connection that has been taken on board but without looking at the defined meaning of the word.

I think the OP is in a better position to comment, quite frankly. Also, what 11 year old has seen Pretty Woman? Highly unlikely as the film is pretty old now. The term is not acceptable,clearly came from parental upbringing, but I think many have over-reacted and have accepted that Hollywood PR defines langage. It doesn't. The world of language is bigger than that.

I am an adult and I have never hard tart used as a substitute for prostitute. Obviously I mix with an older and wiser generation. The generation that would have had a chat with the child and explained why she shouldn't say that.

Oxford dictionary

Tart does not mean prostitute and I would like any of you to quote me a dictionary definition that says it is.

it totally does mean prostitute, and has done for centuries, ask your "older wiser" generation!

( incidentally, it was originally short for "sweetheart")

Collins Concise: Tart - Promiscuous woman, a prostitute.

Bojo - which dictionary do you have?