White British pupils underperforming because of parents

[noblegiraffe]

White British pupils are underperforming at GCSE and it's because of the parents claims a report out today:
www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/04/white-children-falling-behind-other-groups-at-gcse

So what do families from other cultures do differently?

Also meant to add, I've seen other posts from you and I know you go well beyond your role for your students.
It is people like you fighting for equality that gives these kids the opportunities to access.

Newlife thanks!

Why are "White Irish" doing so well at 15? What's going on there? Are "White Irish" students from Northern Ireland ?

Well, they are all self-reported categories.... So anyone who considers themselves to be more Irish than British and not to be an Irish traveller... Could be American for all we know.

I'm not surprised that the gap widens the moment a child hits reception. We are expected to listen to our reception child read every day, but not all parents do. So that's effectively 15 mins of 1:1 education every day that some children miss out on. Schools are expected to fill that gap, but you only need a few children in a class to not be reading at home for it to be hours of missing reading across the class each day. And of course, those children will then start to miss the other benefits of reading - widening vocabulary and accessing other learning materials.

You see it on mumsnet a lot, people slagging off the education system. Its almost popular for parents to suggest they home school their DC because the school is to academic. Or teachers talking about striking because the system is to rigorous and its to hard to raise standards.

It doesn't surprise me at ALL that white British children are falling behind because there has been a culture of entitlement created where no white British child should have to work for anything. In the last decade we created the idea that benefits was a lifestyle choice.

You reap what you sow.

I doubt the figures relate to MNetters' / homeschooled DC: any regular reader of these boards will know that MNetters' DC are frequently prodigies and MNetters' fully involved in their education!

Ok i've changed sides. The current 'loud parenting' thread on mn seems full of accusations of poor parenting for actually telling kids stuff in eg museums/galleries/walks about town. Maybe you are all right after all

Obviously I was saying that mumsnet is just representative of the issue , not the cause.

"He hasn't got a piano or musical parents at home"
"Kids who don't have a parent who will taken them to see plays, run through speeches with them etc are at a disadvantage."

Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know).

Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money. Play tickets cost, I grant you, but families with children get good benefits and TC in this country and they aren't THAT expensive.

It's not just about money. It's about trying. Seeing the value in it and trying.

"Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know)."

I'm slightly stunned by this statement. We do have a piano (DH's), and it didn't cost us much but we then had to pay to get it tuned, it needed work to make it functionally playable, which also cost money and, probably most significant, we are only three people living in a 3 bed semi and it still takes up a bloody great chunk of our sitting room and of course no-one else can do anything loud (watch tv, talk etc) while he's playing. Oh, and the neighbours can hear whenever he plays.

Hearing speeches - not just about trying - but about having the time and energy after working 40 hours p/w in a low paid job, coming home, going round to care for elderly mum, then coming back and cooking/cleaning for 4 kids & making sure they've all got clean uniform/pe kit, have done their school homework, etc etc, just for example. (thinking of one friend who does work miracles with her dc, but she's always runnign to catch up)

And it isn't just about trying, it's about background knowledge. When dd was smalll, I could hear her Eisteddfod piece through every day and encourage her, but I couldn't pick her up every time she pronounced an obscure Welsh word wrong, I couldn't help her get the particular stance and way of speaking that is expected (it's very specific) - not because I don't care, but because I've never been through that system myself. And you can see the results - as soon as you get through to County level, dc from Welsh language homes are in the vast majority.

" Play tickets cost, I grant you, but families with children get good benefits and TC in this country and they aren't THAT expensive. "

So long as you have a car to get there . . . unless you're in a city, plays only happen in the evening when buses don't run.

Isn't the point, though, that everything you've said is true for everyone on a low income; why does it affect white wc children more than those from other backgrounds?

Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know).
Yes they are but they cost a fortune to tune. Also, poor people often live in small over crowded houses without the room for a piano. If no one in the house can already play then they have to pay for lessons.

Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money. Play tickets cost, I grant you, but families with children get good benefits and TC in this country and they aren't THAT expensive.
Factor in getting yourself into the town as well and it starts to add up. And not THAT expensive is still a lot for a family on the breadline.

You have no idea what it is like to live on benefits if you think that you can just spend a little money on some theatre tickets.

Anyway. It's not stuff like theatre tickets and pianos that make the difference. It's taking the time to talk to your child, read with them, do some simple crafts, play in the garden, walk through the park. All things that are free or very cheap and shouldn't be asking too much of a parent.

I had a reception parent complain that I was sending a reading book home with her son. 'I can't be arsed to do this' was her comment. What chance has the poor sod got if his mother isn't interested in him when he is 4? It wasn't even a book with words. Just one of those ones where you look at the pictures and talk about the story.
I had another parent who would pick up her reception, nursery and year one children and give each of them MP3 players. They'd all put their headphones in and walk home in silence. Now I'm sure that parenting 3 children of those ages isn't easy but surely you would want to hear about their days?

It's this kind of thing that causes the problem, not theatre tickets, not piano lessons. Those things widen the gap for the middle class children but being ignored causes children to drop behind even more.

Sadik - your point about the Welsh - this is The case for Chinese parents with children in English schools. So how do they do so well?

bigkids - sorry, my point was specifically regarding drama/performance. I might be wrong, but I think (?) that there aren't that many dc of 1st generation immigrants going into theatre. Music is a bit different in that obviously a non English first language family are equally able to support if they have the resources to do so, it's more a time, space - and often cost - thing. Having said that certainly when I was at school, admittedly many years back, I think immigrant parents were also much keener on their daughters going into more reliably paying professions!

General academic achievement is rather different - my parents both left school at 16 with minimal qualifications, but they were very well able to help and support me, because the resources to do so are more readily /freely available. (One reason I think libraries are so important.)

guerre

The point I was trying to make was that the opportunities to enter dd school are fair to all.
I know it's for talented musicians but there are talented kids from all walks of life and it's great that how much you earn has no bearing on gaining entry.
I think it's different for choristers as financial support is much different and paid by The Cathedral, not the same scheme as the school.
The two are completely different, except the choristers attend the day school and have a music lesson.
The standard isn't particularly high to gain entry, there are plenty parents on here whose children are way beyond my dd and far better qualified on paper, far more exams etc.
The school look for potential, dedication, motivation and they eek out the ones who are doing it for parents, not themselves. It's more about fit than exams passed.
seriously, anybody can apply and it isn't so elite as people imagine.

The point I was trying to make was that how can a child discover their musicality if they've never even heard music, or handled an instrument? Your child has been raised by two musicians, I'm sure she found her musicality early, it would have been inculcated from conception.
And yes, it's a good thing that schools like hers exist, and that people without means may attend without finding the fees themselves, absolutely. The children in this study that are failing are not like your child though, are they?
Those falling behind are not all those from lower income families, they are those from low(/er) opportunity families. There are many parents on MN whose children are in receipt of PP funding that point out their child is not suffering due to lack of money, as they still stretch and provide opportunities for their child. But PP funding is there to provide for those children whose parents do not.
That's the point I was trying to make- your family situation provided the best exemplar, and you happened to be on the thread, I hope you don't feel it was a personal attack, it sincerely was not meant as that.

GeorgeTheThird Wed 06-Apr-16 08:23:43

"Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know)."

Have you seen the kind of houses people live in in the poorer parts of towns? My friend didn't have a living room large enough to fit a table in for the family sit and eat at (the kitchen was a narrow passageway between the sink and the cooker).They were sad about that as they were anxious for their daughter to acquire good table manners, but there really only was room for the sofa and a chair. The bedrooms were big enough for the beds and nothing else. Where on earth would that piano have gone?

And even if you did have a space, how would you get the piano there if you have no transport? And, as somebody said, pay for tuning?

"Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money."

And about paying for the plays. You are not going to get into drama school by just reciting some monologue off the internet. The kind of modern play (and you do need to read it all, not just the monologue) that is required for auditions tends not to be available in libraries, nor on the internet.

Of course, these things, as pointed out by Pipbin, are not what makes the difference in the early days: it is the basics of talking and reading to your child. But when they get into secondary school it does begin to make a difference, especially if the child shows some special talent. One of ds' friends had a talent for acting as did our dd. She had access to a house full of books, including plays, money to join a drama group which gave stage experience, money to join a summer programme and have the chance to work with professionally trained actors, money to go and see plays both locally and (very occasionally) in London, money to buy any play she needed to study, bus money to go to rehearsals. He has a mother who loves him and talks to him; she is certainly not one of those neglectful uninterested parents you hear about; in fact, she spends more time around her son than I do around ds. But all those other things she cannot give him. Because they are about money.

GeorgeTheThird Wed 06-Apr-16 08:23:43

"Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know)."

Have you seen the kind of houses people live in in the poorer parts of towns? My friend didn't have a living room large enough to fit a table in for the family sit and eat at (the kitchen was a narrow passageway between the sink and the cooker).They were sad about that as they were anxious for their daughter to acquire good table manners, but there really only was room for the sofa and a chair. The bedrooms were big enough for the beds and nothing else. Where on earth would that piano have gone?

And even if you did have a space, how would you get the piano there if you have no transport? And, as somebody said, pay for tuning?

"Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money."

And about paying for the plays. You are not going to get into drama school by just reciting some monologue off the internet. The kind of modern play (and you do need to read it all, not just the monologue) that is required for auditions tends not to be available in libraries, nor on the internet.

Of course, these things, as pointed out by Pipbin, are not what makes the difference in the early days: it is the basics of talking and reading to your child. But when they get into secondary school it does begin to make a difference, especially if the child shows some special talent. One of ds' friends had a talent for acting as did our dd. She had access to a house full of books, including plays, money to join a drama group which gave stage experience, money to join a summer programme and have the chance to work with professionally trained actors, money to go and see plays both locally and (very occasionally) in London, money to buy any play she needed to study, bus money to go to rehearsals. He has a mother who loves him and talks to him; she is certainly not one of those neglectful uninterested parents you hear about; in fact, she spends more time around her son than I do around ds. But all those other things she cannot give him. Because they are about money.

sorry, don't know what happened there

Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know).

What a "let them eat cake" kind of statement!!!

As said above, many house are too small, they cost a lot to maintain/tune, and of course, it costs a fortune to transport it. We had one to give away and the buyer was quoted upwards of £100 from local removal companies to shift it a few miles. Then the costs of tuition isn't cheap either.