White British pupils underperforming because of parents

[noblegiraffe]

White British pupils are underperforming at GCSE and it's because of the parents claims a report out today:
www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/04/white-children-falling-behind-other-groups-at-gcse

So what do families from other cultures do differently?

It's probably a case of bilingual pupils having parents who are more invested in their children's education because they have made the effort to support their child learning a second language, parents who are less interested/able/motivated to encourage their child to learn English and leave it to the school to teach them are going to have children who underperform academically perhaps?

Why would a parent value an education that they are always being told is crap?
Yes, Noble, and why would children and teenagers?

Also remember that children who have English as a second language are the children of people who have decided to move to another country in search of a better life. They have moved to another country to give their children better opportunities. They are motivated and will push their children to make the most of this opportunity.

Sure, but of the non-white British children, surely there are far more 2nd+ generation than directly descendants of immigrants i.e. quite likely to speak English at home? They should have reported these categories separately.

No, it's actually good. Which means that the people you are assuming are actually moving on and finding their feet. What is wrong with that. Maybe they have started to leave their issues behind and the U.K Is improving in those areas. The only difference is one group of white working people needs help and a solution should be found in the education system. Your attitude won't help solve.

I don't really understand your post.

My experience is the English system is very good in infants/Juniors.Arround 7-9 children start developing attitude.Arround 10-11 some teachers start becoming disaffected and homework is rarely set and marked.
In our local comprehensive there was very little homework in year 7/8.It was often project based so often the boys would do it all at the last minute.There was no regular homework helping children get into a habit of working/revising.Then a last minute panic for GCSE's by which time it's too late.So capable bright kids were getting B's and C's in a lot of technical/non-academic subjects.But the school doesn't seem to care and most of the teachers have low expectations.
This has been my personal experience and I'm sure it's not everyone's.But locally, children are being failed.
It makes me so angry that these children are being badly let down .But all I can do is look after my own to the best of my ability.

Zed, that is interesting

Noble- I don't think native English children are ahead at five- I think the issue is masked by non-english speakers bringing down the stats for their groups at that age. Of course, once they've been in school a while, and learnt the language, they pull ahead as a group.
I think there is a severe problem in England with edutainment, people don't expect or want learning to be boring and hard. Well- it is. And the sooner we lose the attitude that school should be fun and entertaining, the sooner learning will improve.
There is nothing worth having that is not worth working for. Bring back the Protestant work ethic, and you'll see a change. Too many people want something for nothing, and believe it's their entitlement.

It's not about valuing the education on offer, it's about valuing an education.
For example, if a parent thinks that the national curriculum has dumbed down education they can either be a parent who is not invested in their child's education and so does nothing or they can be a parent who values an education and wants their child to do well and so provides additional activities which enhance the education that the child gets.

You can have a child from a family who are in poverty who values an education and seeks to provide educational opportunities even if they don't have much money - they might not be able to travel or go to educational events but they can be encouraged to watch the right programmes on television, to read the right books and so on.

My DS once had a teacher who had the most appalling general knowledge and taught things that were plain wrong, DD used to have a English teacher who admitted to her students that she never read a book and preferred Heat magazine (she's no longer a teacher, she failed her NQT year and left the profession), I knew from what DS had said that her general knowledge was poor, plus I know that the education system in the UK now is so prescriptive that children don't gain much knowledge in schools, they just learn how to do tasks so we worked at home to overcome those shortfalls and my DCs have both done well as a result.

Arround 10-11 some teachers start becoming disaffected and homework is rarely set and marked You must be joking! They have SATs papers coming out of their ears.

This study is a nightmare for Guardian-types.

Eh? Surely this is worrying for everyone, no matter what paper they read? Or because it's class-based you think the Telegraph readers won't give a shit?

My DS once had a teacher who had the most appalling general knowledge and taught things that were plain wrong General knowledge is not valued in education now. Old codgers like me who have good gen. knowledge are too expensive. There is no time to stop and stare.

Derza exactly my point. Education is about being able to complete a task and not about learning and gaining knowledge.

What do families from other cultures do differently?
Have ambition for their children to get more than minimum wage jobs.
Understand that good qualifications are essential to that.
Make their kids put in the time and effort to get those qualifications. Stand over them. Push them. Tell them they need to do it. Not say "I just want them to be happy whatever they decide to do."

Value achievement. See studying as a good thing. Not expect that "boys will be boys" and thereby encourage poor discipline and boisterous activities over reading.

Sorry, Derxa didn't mean to get your name wrong. Schools today don't have time to teach properly IMO, they have a list of things that children need to be able to do - spend three weeks rewriting a story, write their own poem, etc etc and it's loosely based on a theme.
Say my DCs were going to do the Romans next term, they would learn a few small facts about the Romans but the main focus would be on writing about the Romans and ticking more boxes for literacy skills and any incidental learning about the Romans would be just that, incidental.

Back up the school if discipline is needed. Not say "I wish they'd just deal with it in school without involving me in it."

George my son's teacher once said to me 'boys will be boys, that's why he doesn't like reading, he's a typical boy'. My son looked shocked and waited to see my reaction, apparently it was worth seeing! The teacher, and afterwards, the head teacher both had to listen to a lengthy diatribe about why her attitude was unacceptable I hope they have recovered from the trauma

I think there is a severe problem in England with edutainment, people don't expect or want learning to be boring and hard. Well- it is. And the sooner we lose the attitude that school should be fun and entertaining, the sooner learning will improve.
I agree to an extent. I think instant gratification has stolen the satisfaction of achievement from hard work (not that learning is boring). There is a defeatist attitude that children have shorter attention spans, but evolution doesn't work that quickly. Low expectation is a problem and the edutainment approach is part of this.

Of the white youngsters I know who've failed at school, there's shrewd financial reasons. They're already housed for life by the council and/or their parents, and with 70 quid a week dole money, they're making a hefty profit on what they'd get in a NMW job.

You don't need qualifications - or basic literacy - to get that. Low earning jobs aren't that appealing, to be honest - and with centuries of manual labour in their veins, they aren't being shown any other options.

Nowadays, with the poor getting even poorer, you'd have to be an idiot to waste a lot of time at school only to end up on 7 quid an hour, which won't house or feed you.

Yes exactly. I have two now teenage boys. I never had any truck with that bollocks. The elder has 11A* at GCSE. He I wouldn't have got that if he hadn't been able to sit and concentrate, if I'd assumed from before school that boys aren't able to do that.

I don't know if this was mentioned but there was a thread where a MNer had been burgled by a couple of ten year olds who she'd been kind to. Ten years old!!!

The police suggested that the victim accepted a hand written apology letter rather than press charges. These children were already doing antisocial things like throwing stones at the Deputy Head's house.

I know somebody is going to mentioned Special Needs but some children don't and need rescuing. Cutting investment in social care is just storing up police problems in future.

Children from first generation immigrant families are part of a self selecting group: those who come from a background where they are smart enough, energetic enough, enterprising enough to organise a new life in another country and learn a new language. They are a cut above the rest.

A lot of English people can't speak their native tongue well, and couldn't organise a trip to the next town, let alone emigrate and learn a new language in a completely alien country.

I've ALWAYS been grateful for new immigrants coming here and improving the stock (so to speak).

You don't need qualifications - or basic literacy - to get that. Low earning jobs aren't that appealing, to be honest - and with centuries of manual labour in their veins, they aren't being shown any other options.

So why aren't they being shown any other options? Maybe the parents lack the motivation to demonstrate that there is more out there than NMW jobs but can schools do anything to help?

DS says that his peers want to be you-tubers, footballers etc etc. His little group of friends want to be a doctor, a physiotherapist, a teacher and a hotel manager. Why the difference? Aspirational families presumably make the difference?

I don't think children have shorter attention spans- look how long some of them will play minecraft!
I think it's not channelled the way it would have been previously, and I do think fast cut television had a part to play in that. However, children beginning school now haven't been raised on television, but apps. We will see what the impact of that is in fifteen years time.

I can relate to your post smallcarrot Both my ds devour books and yet I've had several teachers tell me how boys don't read
When ds1 started school another teacher told me how ds's teacher didn't like teaching boys. I was appalled. The feminisation of teaching, especially in the early years, is a problem for boys imo. That probably sounds terribly sexist but I really don't mean it to.
Both ds attend school with a high percentage of friends who are Asian. Most of these friends tell my boys that if they don't do well at school, they will find themselves in huge trouble. A couple claim to get physically beaten in they don't perform well in exams.

I am a full-time private tutor and tutor children from a wide range of backgrounds.

I realise it's hardly a scientific sample, but ime, Asian families (and other non-white British backgrounds for want of a better way to express it) will often pay for extra help and support outside of school, even when they are relatively poor and they will invest in it long term, not just for a couple of weeks before exams. My theory is that having relocated from elsewhere, there is a bigger interest in the children being able to fulfill the potential that the move afforded them (even if 2nd or 3rd generation, they are often more aware of the opportunities out there etc), whereas there is maybe more of a tendency from white British from poorer backgrounds to "accept their lot", to not aspire to as much etc. I think it's probably associated with the typical class-system, not to aspire to ideas above your station etc. I remember once a teacher saying about ds1 (aged 6 at the time, " he thinks he's something special " (said in a not nice way). My reply? "They should ALL think they are something special" - his dare society try to manage the expectations of a child so young already. (And yes, I think it is society, not just that particular teacher. I think she was simply voicing what many others think - children from certain areas, certain backgrounds etc shouldn't want too much, expect too much, get too many ideas about themselves etc).