White British pupils underperforming because of parents

[noblegiraffe]

White British pupils are underperforming at GCSE and it's because of the parents claims a report out today:
www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/04/white-children-falling-behind-other-groups-at-gcse

So what do families from other cultures do differently?

It's very odd, Apple, when you come from a different culture. Both my parents were teachers and I always thought of that as one of the most respected groups in society- until I came here and started reading the papers.

That isnt very true regarding to teacher because my daughter thinks the teachers know the best and more than me(shocking, I know, but then we agreed that at home mom knows the best). What they say is absolute and she adores them all.

a traditional WC attitude that higher education is "not for the likes of us", that it is trying to set yourself apart and "be better than the rest of us"
(have come across this attitude in some parents of dc's friends)

My neighbour's daughter got into Oxford. She didn't take the place as she was worried that her fellow students would look down on her coming from a council house. Her words were 'I wouldn't fit in, it's not for the likes of me'. I can't imagine a child of any back ground from another culture turning down a place at Oxford or the like on those grounds.

Greeneleave, most children go through this phase. But rarely at the age when they have to decide whether to try for a place at Oxbridge.

Pipbin, I can sympathise with your neighbour's daughter. I had exactly that same thought process 20 years ago.
My husband often queries why I didn't go to a 'better' university and I honestly thought I wouldn't fit in or be able to afford it. I was reliant solely on my grant, loan and whatever I could earn during the holidays. My parents were not in a position to help with more than the odd bit of food shopping or occasional £20. I wish I hadn't limited myself in that way but could see no alternative at the time. No-one in my family had gone to university and I just didn't have that network to draw on. My parents were hugely supportive and very proud of me going to university though.

Agree Pirate about your early years comment. Education can seem set up work better with girls e.g. carpet time.

I work with some male students, tragic when 1 student hasn't turned up for weeks and needs that help as literacy & numeracy.

The "not for people like us" is something I battle against as the yr 13 form tutor at a rural school. We have a tiny 6th form anyway but only 6 have applied to university this year. Another 5 ought to have done but wouldn't for various reasons they found hard to articulate. But they're kids who have been in the same village primaries and secondary school together since they were 4. Lots of their parents went to the school and still live in the village. The thought of leaving all that familiar stuff and moving on is too much. In previous years we've had cases of students rejecting friends because they've applied to university and are therefore "up themselves" It makes for a miserable few months. A lot of it is about self-esteem, as well as aspirations. It's hard to say you want more, when you have parents and possibly grandparents locally who never did anything beyond go to the local school. If parents aren't supportive, then it's kind of like the child saying they don't value the parent's choices. I remember one very bright yr 11 boy sitting with his mum at parents evening last year talking about what he wanted to do after GCSEs and his mum saying that she didn't know why he wanted to do A Levels - an apprenticeship would be much more useful to him. He got great GCSE results and wanted to to Maths/Physics (and something else) A Levels with the intention of going into engineering. I saw him recently. He did start A Levels, but has since dropped out and is joining the army.

There's a phrase in the North 'peas above sticks.' It refers to peas having grown beyond the cane they're trained to grow on. In other words, getting too big for your boots. I fucking hate it.

I did the same re university, None of my family had gone, so I opted for a redbrick, even though teachers suggested Oxbridge.
When our DC turned out to be academic, we sent them to a local leading indie. Whatever the outcome, they will have had the opportunity to learn in an environment with other sparky, lively kids in a place where the teachers are inspiring and enthusiastic and there is no 'too cool for school' mentality that there was in my own and DH's schools, and the schools I teach in locally now, where the DC would otherwise have gone. The indie has many kids who are second generation immigrants which keep the game high as they and their parents are so determined to achieve.

My neighbour's daughter got into Oxford. She didn't take the place as she was worried that her fellow students would look down on her coming from a council house. Her words were 'I wouldn't fit in, it's not for the likes of me'. I can't imagine a child of any back ground from another culture turning down a place at Oxford or the like on those grounds.

Nothing short of tragic, really. What a waste.

I've seen this too: bright WC musical child getting a full scholarship to a cathedral school as a chorister. Left after a term as his parents found it too posh.."it wasn't for us" etc. Tragic waste, he could have had access to all kinds of amazing opportunities.

I told my dd that it was for the likes of us.
I can't stand that attitude neither.
She was in a choir where she eventually realised she wasn't getting the same opportunities as those with the right coloured blazer.
Now she is in the most fantastic school and getting the best education she could have, for her goals and ambition.
We are wc and haven't experienced any difference in attitude from the millionaires to sink estate dc. All are treated the same and the ethos of the school is carried throughout, from affordable uniform (more than state) to access of opportunity.
financial help in the Arts is there if you look and are prepared to put yourselves out a bit.

financial help in the Arts is there if you look and are prepared to put yourselves out a bit.

Can you elaborate? I've found it very difficult to point the kids I teach towards anything useful.

Just look at the arts council application pages..

Forgetmenotblue - there are several choristers in my family (DC of first cousins). Their parents spend a lot of time attending services and making sure family life fits in with chorister schedules. It's a whole family commitment and not one that everyone likes.

I know this effect acutely, was ridiculed when I mentioned colleges(as in Oxbridge colleges), and eventually went to a uni I loved but was overqualified for all the courses..

EvilTwins

NYT for a start offer fund raising packs for those who can't afford fees. My dd would have done anything if she had wanted to go.

There are free courses and bursaries/ hardship fund etc that even pay for travel to the audition.

Auditions are in Cities all over the place, you don't need to be in London.

The National Choirs are the same, as are the dance schools.

The bursaries and funds cover the summer Schools and concerts too.

Ds' best friend's mum is actively trying to dissuade him (my ds, that is, not just her own son) for studying for his GCSE's- why do you need that?

Ds' best friend's mum is actively trying to dissuade him (my ds, that is, not just her own son) for studying for his GCSE's- why do you need that?

Good grief. Have you had a word?

I know 3 women who are in their 30's, with secure tendencies on 4 bedroom houses, the equivalent of 55k a year in earned income each through benefits (40k in hand to cover all living costs including rent). None of them has any qualifications or work experience. They have achieved this income and secure housing by producing 6 children each as single parents

What happens when the DCs leave home, surely the money will dry up.

Perhaps Asian families all have someone at home to supervise homework etc. Not necessarily DM, could be DGP. Many white families will have both DPs working.

I do think that if you've travelled to a new country you are going to make the best of it. The nonsense, that we were constantly told by gov,about immigrants admiring our British values was probably much more them admiring free education.

There is so much on tv - the voice etc where ordinary folks shoot to fame, likewise some young bloggers - so you can be famous and rich without qualifications.

I live in the US sometimes and if a member of the public is interviewed on tv they can make a good explanation and speak clearly (perhaps not parts of the backwoods). If you stop many Brits they will have an extreme local accent and probably lack the confidence to put themselves over. Also it is cool to babble/mumble in local dialect. There use to be a language for work/school and another for pals, not now.

Most of my teacher friends are retiring now but when they were at school they all hated maths, did the bare minimum. I'm sure they were good teachers but it could be that still there is a bias with the many female teachers in primary not enthused about maths. There is obviously a dearth of female stem students (constantly being promoted) so presumably that stretches to teachers too.

NewLife. NYT do not offer financial help with auditions. Their fund raising packs suggest things like sponsored events. They do offer bursaries, that's true, but the expense of auditioning is enough to put lots of students off. There are one or two charities which offer help with recall auditions for drama schools but the schools themselves charge £80-£100 audition fees, sometimes on top of the UCAS fee. Also, children who want to do drama/dance etc and have neither supportive parents nor a pushy teacher at school have very little chance of finding this stuff. Bursaries etc are usually dependent on parents filling in forms about income which, in itself, requires a supportive parent.

Arts council does not give money to individuals.

Evil
It says on their website that they do. They reimburse all costs and you fill in the form for support before you audition.
I know that all parents don't have £80 spare for audition, but most could budget over time.
I know you'd need support but teachers can make children aware of what is out there and if they are independant, help with form completing etc.
For those not in education or training they even offer free courses.

I know it isn't easy and that those with money can just write a cheque and know about opportunities, whereas poorer can't.
A lot of the time the young person has to do the donkey work if they are from a less well to do family, but it certainly doesn't make them less deserving.
They all have to audition for these National Associations so at least in that sense they are open to all.

My dd wants to join National Youth Choir when a little older, she knows we can't afford it and is saving up, doing odd jobs and counting the years and days before she can obtain a buskers license. Lots of better off children won't have to do this, but what do you do, give up and say that's not for you dd?

Seems a slight exaggeration that drama schools audition all over the country: dd (on her second year of auditioning) has always chosen the nearest venue and that still runs into a lot of money in train fares (we are approximately halfway between London and Bristol). And most people need to audition for more than one drama school to stand a reasonable chance. Dd has mentioned experiences of being one of maybe two state educated students at an audition. (doesn't put her off in the least, but that's dd).

NewLife I think you underestimate just how difficult it is for some kids . I am that pushy drama teacher. Over the last three years, I have helped two of my most talented students through NYT & NYMT auditions. One got in last year The other is still waiting to hear for this year. The one who got an NYMT recall was sent sheet music a week in advance. It was half term. He hasn't got a piano or musical parents at home. I met with him twice during half term to work on his pieces. It's similar with audition pieces for drama school/NYT. Kids who don't have a parent who will taken them to see plays, run through speeches with them etc are at a disadvantage. The money is a huge issue. Lots don't have the opportunity to save up - a number of our 6th formers have part time jobs from which they need to pay for clothes, travel to school, food during the day etc. One of my most talented girls has shelled out over £600 in drama school audition fees this year. Luckily she does have supportive parents but she has had to drop the choir she was in to take on extra shifts at work to contribute.

My apologies Evil

I didn't mean to come across as blaze and that it was easy, I know myself it isn't.
We aren't terrifically poor but certainly only afford the couple of k for dd fees.
There are no family holidays but we manage a cheap break now and again, luckily we have low outgoings and tax credits just about manage it.

It must be hard for those without supportive parents and my heart goes out to those kids who really want to do it.
Before we knew we could afford dd school we kept telling her that if she didn't pass audition or we couldn't afford it, she must remember that thousands of musicians had good careers without attending the school.