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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Fair or unreasonable?

75 replies

bkgirl · 11/02/2016 16:47

Child phoned v. stressed from bus to say had forgotten something and would I leave it in to school office before a certain time and she would call by the office to collect it (secondary school). I did but the school refused to give it to her saying the policy was that nothing would be passed over since it would be unfair to children who forgot things and they hadn't someone to bring them in.
What do you think?
Fair or unreasonable?

OP posts:

originalmavis · 11/02/2016 16:51

Unfair. I've been there myself!

tiggytape · 11/02/2016 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bolognese · 11/02/2016 18:25

unfair- DC's school actually has a different student 'work' in the office every morning to run around delivering these things, so it doesn't take up office staff time.

everyone is equal at the bottom.

Farahilda · 11/02/2016 18:31

I can see their reasoning.

But the start point isn't particularly fair either (as tiggytape noted) nor is the potential impact on a whole class if absence of necessary items ties up time or interrupts the intended running of the lesson.

And of course if it's clothing, it could be just plain embarrassing.

So I don't think their policy is the right one.

redhat · 11/02/2016 18:31

unfair and ridiculous.

Original poster

bkgirl · 11/02/2016 19:15

Thanks, I just was wondering was it a sensible or fair policy. She went to collect it on her break, she didn't expect it to be delivered to her. The arrangement was made before 9 so she wasn't even using her phone during school time.

OP posts:

originalmavis · 11/02/2016 19:30

Especially since you made the effort. I've had to run to the sport shop, grab a gumshield and run to the school (or DS couldn't play in a fixture), then bomb it back to work. I would have been really pissed off after all that hassle and expense if they said they couldn't take it.

noblegiraffe · 11/02/2016 19:39

If you have kid A and kid B and they are both disorganised and forget their homework, but kid A's mum swoops in and rescues her and kid B gets detention, then that's not right is it? Equally disorganised kids but only one gets detention.

I think it's a great policy. I've had kids in lessons saying 'I've forgotten my homework' then saying they'll get their mum to bring it in at lunchtime. I say I will refuse to take it and it still counts as late because I'm not allowing the kid to disturb their mum who doubtless has better things to be doing than save their disorganised arse.

Kids might make more of an effort to pack their bag properly if they thought their mum (it's always mum) couldn't hop to it.

Original poster

bkgirl · 11/02/2016 20:32

Thanks Noble and yes I do take your point. Yes indeed fairness is important. That said it doesn't really teach them to find solutions. In future if my daughter ever realises she has forgotten something on her way in to school (so far she only did it once in over a year) I will instruct her to get off at the bus station, wait on me and I will bring it and take her to school late if necessary. She is lucky she has a mum who will hop when she can but saying that our family lost 4 members last year (including my dad) and she made great changes in her own life to help me - whilst keeping up and remaining an A student. She isn't a begging child and realises we haven't much money.

OP posts:

BackforGood · 11/02/2016 23:38

I think it's unreasonable - and, I'm not one to go running around after them, but, just every now and then, if you can help someone out in life, it's nice to just do it.
I can understand that they can't be chasing after pupils to deliver stuff, but you weren't asking that. Seems a daft policy to me.

noblegiraffe · 11/02/2016 23:52

Yes but in a school with 1500 students, do you know how much work it creates for the office to have parents coming in and dropping off stuff and kids coming in and picking it up?

Parents think "oh I'm just doing something nice for my kid" but actually it's a major pain in the arse for schools.

Badbadbunny · 12/02/2016 08:18

Should have just arranged to meet by the gate/fence at a certain time and handed it over in person.

Witchend · 12/02/2016 12:02

I see their point, but I think it's unreasonable. I would just agree to be near the side gate at a certain time and pass it to them.

Namechange02 · 12/02/2016 12:37

I see their point too, but I still think it's unreasonable because you're basically saying that if someone forgets something and walks out the door and then remembers, and does something about it, they're still getting a detention. I wouldn't bail my son out if I saw eg his PE kit sitting in the hall and knew he had PE (it has happened and he got a breaktime detention) but if he called me and asked me to take it in because he had a cross-country after school I would. And I kind of bail him out in advance by checking with him that he has everything before he leaves for school eg this morning he had food tech and as he was going out the door I asked him if he had his food tech book. It was sitting on the lounge floor! I guess you could say that's unfair if another pupil's parent doesn't bother to ask.

As for noble's point - I do get where you're coming from, but if the morning routine is disturbed for some reason, you might forget something. It can be as simple as having someone to stay over the weekend and so Monday morning is a bit out of kilter. It has happened to me as well, and husband might forget his sandwiches. I see no problem in helping your kid out in that instance.

When we had a year 7 meeting the school specifically asked us not to bail the kids out - they said it was better for them to forget their PE kit in year 7 than it was GCSE coursework in year 11! Fair point (if there's any coursework by the time my son gets to year 11).

noblegiraffe · 12/02/2016 13:18

You get all these parents saying 'I'm just.....' and you end up with kids coming late to your lesson because they were 'just' meeting their mum at the gate to get their PE kit. Or trying to text their parents in lessons. Or treating their mum like a skivvy. (I watched in horror as a kid - not in my class - texted their mum a shopping list of ingredients for a pasta sauce they were supposed to be making in food tech that afternoon with instructions to go to Waitrose).

You might think your individual action is reasonable and thus the school is unreasonable to ban it, but trust me it gets ridiculous.

If a kid forgets something, it's not the end of the world. They don't need rescuing.

Bolognese · 12/02/2016 14:11

lol, noble your just so different from me, you cant make children equal at the bottom, that's a failed ideology. Next you will be banning homework because some parents support them at home and its unfair on the children who have unsupportive parents. Or banning sports day because it unfair on the children who's parents didn't play football with them every day. Or banning school trips because its unfair on children who cant afford them. Or banning reading because its unfair on children who's parents didn't read to them every night. Or banning exams because its unfair on children who had bad teachers. Yes it creates work for the office, that's their job they work in a school.

What about banning stupidity?

If you ban parents from supporting children then you will just make them late for class as they pass stuff through the gates.

noblegiraffe · 12/02/2016 14:45

They're not supporting children, they're bailing them out. And they're not necessarily doing them any favours, because it's not teaching them to be organised or independent. It also causes the school problems in having to deal with the logistics of handovers, and encouraging kids to spend time texting their parents, organising meet-ups and so on. Once the kids are beyond the school gate, they should be perfectly capable of just getting on with it.

I know the OP's school said they banned it because it wasn't fair. That's one reason to ban it, there are many others.

TooMuchOfEverything · 12/02/2016 15:17

I can see all the arguments for not passing things on. But ultimately I go by 'treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself'. DH and I occasionally forget work stuff and drop things off to each other when we can. So I think the same would apply to DC.

An office is there to support its organisation - be that a school, a hospital, a company, it's what offices are for! You shouldn't work in an office if you begrudge supporting people.

Bolognese · 12/02/2016 19:59

Supporting or bailing out its all subjective. Its not bailing out a kid who did their own homework but left it in the kitchen. Its bailing them out by doing it for them. Ultimately its not a teachers role to decide a parent is not allowed to support their child.

Sure if a child turns up to class without homework then punish them, sure ban mobile phones. But its just ridiculous to override parents because you know a better way to force children to be independent. And you wonder why teachers get a bad rep.

noblegiraffe · 12/02/2016 20:12

But its just ridiculous to override parents because you know a better way to force children to be independent

Actually, it's parents overriding teachers isn't it? Forget your homework and get a detention unless mummy steps into the breach, in which case no detention and you get to miss the first five minutes of maths while you pick it up.

If you saw the effect on school kids you'd understand. I've had Y12 students tell me they're going to phone mum to bring some forgotten work in. FFS.

senua · 12/02/2016 21:15

Presumably the DC needed the thing for their education.
Isn't it better to have the thing in the classroom than for the DC to go without.
Let the parent do the drop-off, the DC have the vital piece of equipment but ... still have a detention.
Win all round.

Bolognese · 12/02/2016 22:41

Yes noble parents do get to override teachers, they are the parents!

If a child misses the first five minutes of maths then give them a detention, FAIR. If a child doesn't have work in the class when they are asked for it, then they are to blame and punish them, FAIR. If a child is on a bus before school starts and phones mum OR dad (dont be so sexist) to leave it in and they pick it up without disruption to any of their classes then fine its FAIR.

Why do you just sit there watching them on their mobile phone is what I want to know! Confiscate them.

noblegiraffe · 12/02/2016 23:17

It's not sexist to say that in my experience I've never seen a kid phone dad to bring something in.

Of course phones get confiscated, but why the hell are parents texting their kids in lessons anyway?

Parents do not get to override teachers on matters of school discipline. They have no right to refuse their child attend a detention for example.

Senua, it would be very rare that the item is so vital that the kid can't do without it. And do you think the kid would say 'here's my homework but I deserve a detention because my mum brought it in?

Bolognese · 12/02/2016 23:42

Noble I really dont get why you are a teacher, you seem to want to do the opposite of what parents and tax payers want. Shouldn't you be a social worker taking children away from their families because you know better than everyone?

If a father where to say "women get paid as much as men", what do you think the response would be on mumsnet? You said "it's always mum", you didn't say "at my work, in my classroom, its always the mother." hypocritical much?

I have heard of feminazi but I am starting to understand what a teachernazi is. Apologies to any Germans on here.

noblegiraffe · 13/02/2016 00:02

you seem to want to do the opposite of what parents and tax payers want.

All parents and all taxpayers want you to drop your kid's PE kit off at school and you accuse me of generalising?

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