AIBU about wanting to send our children to a same-sex school?

[NJBradley]

My DH doesn't feel sending our DCs to a same-sex school (Lancaster Grammar schools), is right saying it stifles their interactions with the opposite sex etc. and all the usual arguments.

What do you think and how best to change his mind?

I'm not overly touchy (apologies if I come across that way) or censoring your language and as you know I've repeatedly recommended coed schools to others in the past so am ambivalent about SS or coed. I just find using words very emotive words like stifling and penned in for children in schools in 2016 particularly in day schools rather bizarre and can only assume that's its a subject you have an legitimate and unpleasant experience of and feel strongly about. But many adults have attended SS and many children currently do in both sectors, lots will state they had very positive experiences and I'm not sure they would recognise your descriptions of their school lives, as very few children full board they will have extensive lives outside of school and can have as many contacts as they like with the opposite sex.

As I and other keep saying forget its SS ask yourself does I like the school and does the school fit my DC?

I'm not keen on single sex and my preference is most definitely co-ed. I'm very familiar with the concept of bitchiness and anorexia within girls schools and am far more comfortable with boys in the mix. Fortunately my children feel the same. Having said that, if single sex was my best option I would overcome my concerns.

I was the first to say it's school first and co-ed/ single sex second for me too happygardening and I have absolutely no first hand negative experience of single sex, I was fine at school although kids were much more segregated back then. I haven't described any school beyond using the apparently offensive term penned in and the completely accurate word segregated and the adjective most often used by local girls moving away from the all-girls school: stifling. This is not directed at your DS's school which the boys on the other side of the family all historically attended - clearly it's a fabulous school.

Molio don't worry I didn't think that your comments were directed at my DS's school. .
You did use the term "stifling" perhaps you could explain what you mean by this, contrary to what you may think I'm not picking a fight here I am actually interested in your views. Of course we all have different views that's what makes this site so interesting in my view outdated ridiculous uniform is stifling but I'm sure many on here would disagree.
Some raise concerns bout eating disorders in SS schools, this is not my area of expertise (thankfully) but my many of my colleagues are actively involved in this area and I don't think its necessarily more prevalent in SS schools, from what I hear in meetings and the little I understand eating disorders are very complex and home circumstances are major factor.

Eating disorders are indeed extremely complex but they are as a matter of mathematical fact more prevalent in highly academic schools and in particular highly academic girls schools especially boarding schools.

Stifling. Well just that really - restricted and cloistered/ not normal. I would add that that's what the girls themselves say, I'm just passing it on :) A large number of my DDs' girl friends at university went to top single sex independents and a large number of that large number say how much they disliked their schools.

Eating disorders, in particular anorexia and bulimia, are disproportionately found among high achieving UMC and MC girls. Their incidence is proportionately just as high in that population in European countries with overwhelmingly co-ed day schools.

BoboChic the logic is therefore that at high achieving all girls schools the incidence will be highest. There's an unhealthy spin off to do with the competitive nature of these illnesses/ their sufferers which means that numbers affected in boarding schools can reach epidemic proportions, because the girls are constantly together.

In places where the population for whom anorexia/bulimia is the coping mechanism of choice is highly concentrated, MH issues will be revealed by anorexia/bulimia. That doesn't mean that single sex girls schools (day or boarding) aggravate MH issues and provoke anorexia.

I went to both a girls' school and a mixed school.

No way will I send my DC to a single sex school. At the girls' school we were obsessed with boys. How we could meet boys, which boys we fancied, which older brothers of friends were nice etc etc.

At the mixed school there was none of this.
Having been in class with boys for years, the girls were either friends with the boys or thought they were somewhere between mildly and very annoying! There was certainly no idolising of boys like there had been in the girls school. A much, much healthier attitude!

Well Bobo that's your view. I'm sure plenty (including educationalists and medics) would differ but I'm certainly not going to argue.

Just a small point, but the phrase 'coping mechanism of choice' is rather unsympathetic.

"they are as a matter of mathematical fact in particular highly academic girls schools especially boarding schools.
Do you have actual figures on this?
My colleagues work with mainly girls with eating disorders, but we have no SS state schools in this area (where the majority come from) and in our area the numbers are pretty similar from the independent schools be they coed or SS.
Eating disorders are generally associated with UMC and MC high achieving girls so its inevitable that high achieving UMC MC girls schools will have a higher number per 100 than your average non selective coed school. You are assuming the cause is the school and the fact that's it SS but its not that simple (if only it were). Girls who develop eating disorders at SS high achieving senior girls schools either went with it already (sadly very common from what I hear) or already had a predisposition to get it, they probably would have got it in a high achieving coed school as well.
My colleagues also tell me that the incidence is no higher amongst those who board in fact extreme parenteral pressure to achieve academically is very much associated with eating disorders and boarding can relieve some of this pressure.

"coping mechanism of choice" is not a value judgement and it's not my opinion, it's statistics.

Obviously some SS schools are dysfunctional and create additional pressures that provoke a higher than expected incidence of MH problems. But don't confuse population and environment.

Indeed, happygardening - a girl a know very well who was hospitalized for a year for anorexia (having only ever attended co-ed day schools) was released from hospital on the condition that she went to boarding school. She spent two years at boarding school and then was well enough to return to live with her family full time.

I'm assuming nothing happygardening.

Yes, you're right - it is correct that eating disorders are manifesting themselves at a younger age than previously, and it is correct that sufferers will have a pre-disposition although I'm not sure that the rest of your sentence is true.

You're not correct (or your colleagues aren't) about the relative incidence at top girls boarding schools. That's where the incidence is highest.

Bobo calling a mental health illness 'a choice' is very flip and has fuck all to do with statistics. It's not pretty.

No doubt an exception to prove the rule Bobo.

The mental illness is not the coping mechanism, Molio. Anorexia, bulimia, self-harm, alcoholism, drug addiction etc are the coping mechanisms of choice (the self-medication) to calm the pain of the mental illness.

It was in a country where there are very few boarding schools and a very high prevalence of anorexia, so hardly an exception that proves a rule.

I'm not keen on boarding school however!

Bobo you seem to be generalizing from one particular there's no point my arguing because I'm doing so from a more removed research led point of view.

I still take issue with the idea that any of these sufferers choose, but whatever.

Oh rubbish Molio. You are spouting the received wisdom of another era and have no grasp at all of statistics, correlation or causation.

Bobo you sound a bit disaffected, perhaps by this girl you know so well, so it might be a good idea to get back to the original post which doesn't even concern boarding school. But no, I'm right up to the minute on this one, sorry, and have a very clear understanding of all the things that you say I don't.

"I'm not sure that the rest of your sentence is true."
Which part of the rest of my sentence? Are you saying that eating disorders don't exist in high achieving coed schools? If you are trust me on this you are absolutely wrong. I don't work with those with anorexia but I know what schools they attend!
"You're not correct (or your colleagues aren't) about the relative incidence at top girls boarding schools. That's where the incidence is highest."
From a professional point of view Id like to see the actual researched figures on this please.
We also have children who've moved to boarding schools to get away from their exceptionally pushy parents and there eating disorders have become better controlled but on going home especially for the long summer holiday have reared their ugly heads again, More exceptions that prove the rule?
Secondly I also suspect that boarding staff are very quick at picking up conditions like DSH and anorexia probably quicker than parent might be, it appears many parents seem to be in complete denial. Boarding schools staff who are usually trained to look out for such things and have often been suspicious for a long time and are the first ones to actually suggest an eating disorder is present. At DS2 school he's weighed and measure once a year, hopefully any concern would be flagged up and his height and weight monitored more regularly, I suspect this is the norm at boarding schools, therefore again they are more likely to identify eating disorders, at DS1 school (coed state) he was never weighed.
Nothing is ever black and white molio even if you can find the statistics proving that there are more eating disorders at high achieving SS boarding schools I suspect there's a bit more behind this story.

"removed research led point of view."
Please provide links to this research.

LOL, don't think you are fooling anyone with your ludicrous lawyer bluffery innumerate codswallop

happygardening to say that those same girls 'would probably have got' the illness in a high achieving co-ed is pure speculation. That was my point. It's not knowable whether they would or wouldn't. The pre-disposition would be there but whether the illness would be triggered is not something about which you can say probable. Possible yes, obviously.

I'm certainly not saying that domestic factors are irrelevant. They'll be key, of course they will be.

I think you're right about vigilance at boarding schools. Possibly that's a factor in why statistics are so high!

No I never get involved in link offs. KCL is well ahead in its various pieces of research but there are plenty of studies ongoing and particularly interesting ones concerning genetics but if you're looking to find numbers then I suggest you ring the various big name girls boarding schools and find out yourself.

What more do you suspect is behind this story? .

Back to the original post?