AIBU about wanting to send our children to a same-sex school?

[NJBradley]

My DH doesn't feel sending our DCs to a same-sex school (Lancaster Grammar schools), is right saying it stifles their interactions with the opposite sex etc. and all the usual arguments.

What do you think and how best to change his mind?

I went to an all girls - but kids go to mixed comp -

She is more distracted as the boys play up and show off - there on/off relationships and boys gossip worse than the girls -

It's all news to me as I never had it - so never missed it

Ime single-sex schools in my area are EXACTLY as Soosie describes. In my dd1 year (now 21 yrs old) 3 girls from her primary school - so just ones she knew- moved to the co-ed because of bitchiness/bullying. Youngest dd3 now in yr 9 has has 2 move to co-ed this year and 1 last year. Don't know about anorexia etc, but single-sex especially girls seems to be a hot-bed of nasty 'ganging up' and being 'in' or 'out' of the popularity stakes.
Head changed 3 yrs ago, so seems to be more the culture than the lack of input from senior leadership.

The 'best' school isn't always necessarily the right one though. My DSIS goes to one of the best state schools in the country for sixth form and hates it. She was happier at the mixed comp she was at before, even though on paper it's probably one of the 'worst'.

Lots of factors to consider.

Our co-ed has won awards for having unusually large numbers of girls doing 'boy' subjects so clearly mixed schools are capable of driving change.

I think pastoral care probably needs to be especially good in single sex girls schools - particularly boarding schools - for precisely the reason that there are a higher number of problems than elsewhere. That's widely recognized in educational circles and by the schools themselves.

Bobo we disagree in that case on the subject front although perhaps you think A levels are too narrow per se. I don't know how broad the curriculum is in France at sixth form but as a general rule, breadth comes at the cost of depth. This DD is an able scientist too but prefers arts - which is fine. I wouldn't say her boyfriend (an economist) was significantly better educated, just more highly educated in a different subject. (Off topic, apologies, but replying to Pffff).

Molio - the British reassure themselves that their DC are studying in depth at the expense of breadth. But it isn't true. Anecdotally (but I collect such anecdotes) DSS2 had a meeting with his personal tutor at UCL just last week. DSS2's tutor, like DSS1's tutor (different university, same subject) before him, swooned at DSS2's marks and maths skills. Said tutor is German and young and he and DSS2 had a conspiratorial giggle at the weak maths skills of the British students, many of whom had done Maths, FM, Economics and another random A-level. DSS2 did French bac S (with maths speciality - like FM), no Economics (but is doing an Economics degree) so a wide spread of subjects. A-levels aren't that deep. Deconstruct the curricula and past papers of several systems (I have done this) if you want more evidence.

DS2 is at a single sex full boarding school we choose it because it as a very good fit for him and it happened to be single sex or maybe it was a good fit for him because it was single sex, I'll never know. He has no problem interacting with girls. I asked him recently did he mind it was SS and he said he didn't.
Choose the school that you feel will work for your DC's and you, don't be overly swayed by the SS argument either way.

Mine have all gone to single sex because there was no other choice. For the boys this suited them. As someone said already, there is no stigma attached to doing food tech, art, etc. S2 loves the sport but s1 doesn't like sport at all & is still ok.

I would say dd enjoyed her ss school less. She loves to a mixed 6th Form & preferred that. She does say, however, that 6th form at her old school would also have been better than Y7-11 as most of the problem girls didn't stay on for A levels

I have a child at one and I have a few neighbours/friends whose sons & daughters go to LRGS and LGGS. None of whom have expressed any issues at all about them being single sex schools and in fact, most seem to think it's better! Lots of the older pupils have girl/boy friends from the other and they do a couple of "joint" musical and drama productions and a few older trips are joint (visits to tech and career exhibitions etc). There's also plenty of interaction on the bus to/from school.

The girls I know all say there's a lot less bitching because they're not competing for boy's attention, and the boys say there's not much messing about trying to impress the girls. Basically, they get on with the school work rather than trying to get off with each other!

We thought long and hard about choosing a secondary school, and yes, there are potential issues with same-sex, but at the end of the day, you have to weigh up all the pros and cons and choose what's best for your child given your choices. It's fairly easy to ensure your child has inter-action with the opposite sex outside school, such as sporting and social activities, to make up for the same sex school.

If there was a co-ed grammar in Lancaster, then, yes, if it had been as good, I'd imagine people would choose it in preference to single sex, but we've got what we've got, and if it's a choice of a top grammar single sex or good church schools or average comps, then single sex is a compromise I'm happy to make for a better education more suited to my child.

I went to a girls school, my brother went to a boys school. We have both been successful academically. I have had normal relationships with men, am married, have children. My brother finds it very difficult to talk to anyone, male or female, but that's nothing to do with the boys school and everything to do with the relentless bullying in the mixed primary school we went to.

My dds both go to mixed schools, dd1 is at secondary, dd2 at primary. If I had the choice they would have gone to single sex secondary. Dd1 is very self conscious, especially around the boys, it would have been better for her go have found male friends through extra curricular activities, without having them in the classroom with her.

I don't have an issue with A levels Bobo I think they've served my kids fine but admittedly I haven't deconstructed curricula or compared past papers from various systems nor do I have the slightest inclination to do so . My DC had A levels on offer, nothing else, so there's no point my investigating any other system. I live in blissful ignorance of whether other exams might have been better educationally but on the whole I trust their school and the principle there was to stay mainstream.

Surely if the two Lancaster grammars offer the best education in the area then sending DC there makes the most sense? Single sex/ co-ed is secondary, although I'm very glad I never had to make the choice, because co-ed seems far more normal, relaxed and healthier.

What worries me about co-ed secondaries is the amount of access to porn that boys now have on the internet. According to my DD boys in her class were talking about watching internet porn from Yr 7 onwards. One of the older boys apparently talked about how he fancied raping the girls. I like the idea of girls having what is already a difficult time (11 to 16) away from that kind of pressure. Also, there is often a lot of messing around from some of the boys, which makes it difficult for the better behaved children to learn.

Girls look at porn too. I can remember we used to access it at sleepovers sometimes when I was at school.

Then how, Molio, if you've never looked at a school leaving examination beyond A-levels, would you know how they compared to any other and, in particular, whether their narrowness was compensated by more depth? As I say, the British like to believe in depth, albeit at the expense of breadth, but analysis does not bear out the truth of this received wisdom. I'm sure A-levels have served your DC very well indeed, within the system in which they are operating, but that system is not necessarily ideal. There's always room for improvement and the globalisation of education is making comparison every easier.

Unfortunately, most porn is about boys using girls, not about equal relationships. It's having a corrupting effect on how boys see girls.

I agree but surely that being the case your DD will suffer that I'll effect regardless of if she goes mixed sex or not.

that ill effect, even.

I think that being at a girls' school during adolescence (difficult time already) away from sexism and the pressure to look good and be sexual may be a good idea - a breathing space while they go through puberty, a chance to become self-confident and think about academics and friendship.

That's not my experience of co-ed Zazedonia and I'm not at all sure that keeping boys penned in one school and girls penned in another is the way to educate either sex about gender equality.

Bobo I'm not advocating A levels as the global exam of the future, keep your fur on, but at least we get a bit of variation when our kids leave school. As far as I can see all the French kids you know head off to study economics. In answer to your question I guess I know what university tutors say about the different qualifications and I listen to people who know better than me about the minutiae of the different exams. A levels seem fine, I'm not going to get in a lather about it and I do recognize that some countries seem to provide generally superior education - but I personally wouldn't like to see all education reduced to STEM.

Agree. I hated science and maths. Not because I'm female - both my best friends are females and they are now doctors - but because I just did not enjoy them. I don't have that kind of brain.

Quite incredulous, Bobo, that you don't think English literature or French are worth much as A levels. I did both and have done well off the back of them.

That's not my experience either Zeze. Single sex girls school equals high pressure parents/friends/personalities, higher levels of self harming, higher levels of anorexia, extreme pressure to get x grade or to confirm to a certain (rather predictable) look.

"I'm not at all sure that keeping boys penned in one school and girls penned in another"
Are children in 2016 really "penned" in anywhere unless there out in the middle of no where of course. They are at school not a high security juvenile offenders unit. Despite the fact that my DS goes to an all boys school and he full boards at that school he does regularly go outside the school perimeter, he meets girls on a regular basis, most children don't even board let alone full board so are hardly "penned" in their SS schools 24/7 most. Molio I personally just don't recognise your description of children in SS schools.
Ignores discussion about value of A levels.

From my experience girls' schools vary a lot. The one my DN went to a few years ago was apparently a bitchy place. But the one where we are has the reputation of being really friendly, with lots of "quirky" girls. I think there's more pressure to look fashionable, wear make-up etc at co-ed schools.

Why would parents at single sex schools be higher pressure than at a similar (eg both grammar) co-ed?

I know French DC studying all kinds of subjects. For reasons of discretion I tend to refer to my own DSSs - giving detailed examples and anecdotes from other people is a bit of a breach of discretion :)

I think English Lit is a great A-level.