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Secondary education

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Original poster

Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

370 replies

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2015 22:28

Ds is at a secondary modern school. 7% high ability, of which he is one. Letter home today inviting him in a visit to our local (excellent) university because he has been "identified as talented in one or more subjects"

Fantastic thar the school is arranging visits- it has only just started to send any kids to university at all. The school's catchment means that there are very few parents with more than a basic education, and they are pushing hArd to raise the aspirations of the kids- which is fantastic.

Dp and I have 4 degrees between us. Dd is at a Russell group university. Ds will definitely, if he wants to, go to university. It iseems ridiculous of the school to waste a space on this trip on ds. Should I say something? He's not particularly bothered- except that it means a day off school. If he doesn't go, they could give the space to someone that it might actually make a difference to. Surely they should have thought of this? What do I do? And is it depressing that even in a secondary modern school, privilege attracts privilege?

OP posts:
TheOriginalSteamingNit · 10/07/2015 11:15

I assume it's limited to ten at the preference of the University, not the school - or else the agency that organises these trips (Green Apples and the like...).

I'd mainly be thinking it's always nice to go on a trip, and you never know what you might get out of it. DD went on a residential to the university her father actually went to, with a group of year 12s last year - she still saw it from a different perspective than she'd get from him telling her what it's like, and also had a good time (think Giles telling Nick about Father telling him about the navy before he got to Dartmouth Wink).

I don't think you're coming from a place of arrogance, but doing/saying anything about it would risk making you sound like it, I fear. Also, since going to SM is potentially quite a dent to where a child perceives himself, and might make that child feel that universities are going to view him less favourably, I think the trip is of at least as much value for a middle-class child as another.

Molio · 10/07/2015 12:04

Off topic but I'm really worried about the Biro thing yellowcurtains :(

happygardening · 10/07/2015 12:16

Bertrand is it not possible that school choose your DS to go because UKC run a course he might be interested in?
I dont think they offer medicine, or midwifery or a paramedic degree least they didn't when I was there so maybe those who have ambitions to pursue any of those careers will be taken to alternative universities at a later date?

BrendaBlackhead · 10/07/2015 12:26

I understand the OP's position regarding the school. My dd is at a comprehensive school and it is frustrating knowing that the lessons are by and large too slow for her. I'm not being poncey, my ds was at the same school and it was generally fine for him because the cohort seemed to be much better so the less able ones didn't overwhelm the class. It's all very well for posters to tell someone to put their hand in their pocket and pay for another school - but £15K or so a year is not small change.

However, regarding the university trip - why not? As someone said, the school has to pick realistic candidates not just "deprived" dcs per se. I should like to think that dd's school has not a clue what my level of education or income is and I certainly wouldn't like to think she is being denied opportunities cos I can talk proper.

summerends · 10/07/2015 12:28

Molio continuing the biro diversion, I use permanent black marker pen, I had never thought of what my laziness with labelling could imply Smile

yellowcurtains · 10/07/2015 12:30

Why molio? Some schools are very prescriptive about labelling belongings. As my parents had both boarded, we all had woven name tapes as a given, but no-one else did. At my children's prep there are all kinds of labels in clothing (said by someone that seems to spend far too many hours searching the lost property box for missing items )

UhtredOfBebbenburg · 10/07/2015 12:34

We don't even label our kids' stuff. Hence DD2 has been wearing one shoe that is not hers for at least 2 months (it's obvious it's not hers if you look closely - it almost matches...but doesn't quite. And is half a size bigger). We did tell her to look at people's feet and work out who has her missing shoe - but in fact, it could be someone at her drama or dance classes, so we will likely never know. And she will continue to wear odd shoes till the end of term.

yellowcurtains · 10/07/2015 12:37

Brenda, I only made that suggestion because I 'know' the OP, I would not blithely suggest that to other posters in a similar situation. (Know from MN not in rl)

BrendaBlackhead · 10/07/2015 12:39

Another Biro bodger here. I started off lovingly sewing on woven nametapes, but then after a few years... couldn't be arsed. Speaks volumes about my parenting!

BrendaBlackhead · 10/07/2015 12:40

understood, yellowcurtains!

GnomeDePlume · 10/07/2015 12:42

I may have missed it but OP has your DS actually visited a university at all yet?

I ask because at the age your DS is students can get very definite but highly inaccurate views of what something they have never experienced is like.

At a similar age my DD was absolutely certain that she could never ever work in an office. Fortunately I was able to take her on a business trip with me. She came away from that with totally different views of what working in an office can be like.

Not major in the grand scheme of things but a useful addition to her education.

Your DS may have a view of what going to university is like. A trip like this can give your DS a different perspective. If you do decide to take him yourself will you just drop him off and leave him to experience the trip in the same way as the other students from his school. I think this would be important.

Something else which is a useful if salutary experience is to not be the cleverest person in the room. It is very easy for a group of students who are all top set for everything to get a bit of 'swelled head'. Discovering that there are many people who are just as clever if not cleverer can be a good thing.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/07/2015 12:58

On a practical note Kent is campus based collegiate university. It will help him start thinking about what sort of university enviroment might suit him. Some people don't like being in a campus, even one that is a relatively short walk from the centre of the city. Some people won't like a collegiate university perferring to be more subject related than college based. Even if you are fairly certain that your DS will go to university it may start him thinking about what sort of university he wants to go to. Discussing that with his peers may help all of them with their thought processes.

Molio · 10/07/2015 13:08

Glad I'm in good company then :)

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:17

"
Bertandif the school know y so well, and we don't, why in God's name did you start a thread confused?"

Because, my dear Word, I had this pathetic belief that the thread might be an interesting discussion about widening access to university to non traditional cohort- perhaps even with valuable contributions from experts like you. I had no idea that it was going to be taken as an opportunity to enumerate my (and my son's) manifold sins and wickendnesses.

To be fair, there have been some very helpful contributions- I hadn't, for example, realized the importance of kids talking to each other about this sort of thing.

Oh, and to the people who ar advising me to move him- why should I when he is happy and achieving at an excellent school?

OP posts:
TheWordFactory · 10/07/2015 13:18

I very quickly took the decision not to label anything.

That way, anything unlabled in lost property could legitimately be ours!

TheWordFactory · 10/07/2015 13:30

bertrand if you want a general discussion then start one.

But when you pose what purports to be a genuine question about you son ( mentioning yourself, your DH and your DD into the bargain) don't be surprised when people give genuine answers about your family as opposed to entering into a 'debate'.

I mean, seriously ...

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:30

First child had embroidered Cash's name tapes sewn in to everything, including socks. Second child- lucky to have his initials scribbled in with a Sharpie.

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:34

"bertrand if you want a general discussion then start one.

But when you pose what purports to be a genuine question about you son ( mentioning yourself, your DH and your DD into the bargain)..."

It was a genuine question. And it would have been a bit fucking ridiculous not to mention why I thought this trip would have been more appropriate for someone else, wouldn't it? What with your family's educational bqckground being one of the main indicators of your own likely academic achievement and all........

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:36

"Genuine answers about your family"

What, that my son is arrogant and selfish? Hmm

OP posts:
TheWordFactory · 10/07/2015 13:40

Yes, I think even the unpleasant answers were genuine.

Virtually everyone felt your son should go. Virtually everyone felt your reluctance made you arrogant or in danger of appearing so.

DDDrinkersDDDegree · 10/07/2015 13:43

Same here re first child, although we never did socks. The unused nametapes are lovingly stored, a reminder of my unrealized dreams of handsewn perfection. As are my dh's - I don't know if his mum switched to biro too or just had too many, but we've got his too.

One sharpie pen, one laundry sharpie pen (handily doesn't wash off), one biro - all you'll ever need.

WhattodowithMum · 10/07/2015 13:43

Oh, and to the people who ar advising me to move him- why should I when he is happy and achieving at an excellent school?

Then trust his excellent school to make the decision and don't dip your oar in!

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:48

Then I epressed myself badly. Because I am not arrogant, I do not think my son is "too good" for this trip. I just think there are other who would benefit from it more. Because he has had a head start which many of his peers have not had. I am still at a loss to see why that makes me arrogant, or patronising or many of the other epithets that have been applied to me.

However I am actually shaken by the people who vilified my son. I believe that is utterly despicable behaciour.

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/07/2015 13:51

"Oh, and to the people who ar advising me to move him- why should I when he is happy and achieving at an excellent school?

Then trust his excellent school to make the decision and don't dip your oar in!"

So are you saying that if you think your child's school is excellent you should never question any decision it makes? Just accept everything regardless? That's certainly not how Mumsnt usually operates!

OP posts:
summerends · 10/07/2015 13:51

I think the evasion of sewing labels is a learning outcome for parents that is proportional to number of school years, numbers of DCs and laziness. Of course there has also been a general decline in standards from previous generations Smile.